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  1. #16
    Do you ever leave? EH179's Avatar
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    Musta missed the hyd' bit...no worries.

    Easy fix though...just run a solid cam

  2. #17
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    You know, thinking about it, I don't think I've heard or read many complaints about SFT cams wiping lobes.
    I assume it is just as likely to happen with a solid as it is with a hydraulic isn't it ???
    If not, why ???
    Are the cores different or is it due to the lifters like the EDM's being better than the run of the mill hydraulics ???
    Or is it more a case of not hearing much because hydraulics are much more common ???
    I remember asking the comp rep. when I bought my cam about the number of complaints he got and he brushed it off by saying relative to the huge numbers of hydraulic flat tappets still sold, the percentage of failures is tiny.
    But GTO Geoff is not the first engine builder I've heard say he longer does them unless a customer requests it or budget constraints dictate it.

  3. #18
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    I reckon over the life of the engine, assuming it doesn't fail prematurely, the cost of using more expensive oil like the Brad Penn stuff, along with additives some guys also use at every oil change, the extra cost of the roller conversion can't end up amounting to a lot. With me it was more the sticker shock when I'd spent less on the stroker kit and only slightly more on my heads.
    Last edited by Sneem26; 30-05-2021 at 12:27 AM.

  4. #19
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    Most cam/lifter failures these days are due to incorrect break-in.
    EDM and Edge orifice lifters have reduced the number of failures from days gone by.

    With a good quality core and lifters used with zddp break- in additive, i have run in solid lifters with full spring pressure, successfully, many times.
    I have not had to adjust lash for the last 5 years ( i check every 6 months) and use Fuchs oil.

    Like you, the initial price for a roller set-up is a shock, but obviously the benefits are there.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sneem26 View Post
    I reckon over the life of the engine, assuming it doesn't fail prematurely, the cost of using more expensive oil like the Brad Penn stuff, along with additives some guys also use at every oil change, the extra cost of the roller conversion can't end up amounting to a lot. With me it was more the sticker shock when I'd spent less on the stroker kit and only slightly more on my heads.
    Don’t need expensive oils and additives with FT cams. They live a long and happy life with correct break in procedure and a recommended FT oil like Penrite HPR 30.

    FT cams are one of those things that somehow becomes more inferior than they ever were when there are technological advancements or product development to supersede it. The roller is a longer life cam option and therefore FT’s are thought of a shorter life option and wrongly extrapolated from that is the prevalence of wiped cam lobes. I don’t recall wiped cam lobes being a problem until rollers became more accessible to most of us, that’s because it’s all in our head. When people are deciding which type to go for and see in a pro/cons list rollers don’t wipe lobes, FT’s possibly can then it’s implicitly believed FT wiping lobes is a common problem. More myth and lore is born. Only buy quality components and follow break in instructions to the letter, which only has to be done once, and an FT will be quite alright for more km than most of us modified car guys will drive before making more changes.

    Performance wise a roller cam no doubt provides more area under the curve than an FT ever could and dollar outlay per hp per cam is up to the individual to decide which way to go.

  6. #21
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    My understanding is that FT failures started occurring in the mid to late 90s, as Detroit switched to roller cams. Demand for FT lifters fell away, some companies stopped making them &/or made them in Mexico/China. Then the problems started...
    Around 2000, a mate offered me some Eaton lifters, which I declined. The lobe face finish was so rough, you could catch your finger nail on it. Note than none of the cam companies make their own lifters, or prods or springs etc, they buy them from suppliers & re-box them. So pot luck.

    I will say it again: if you want a reliable FT cam engine, find lifters made before 1995 & have them re-faced. Factory or aftermarket, both ok. I have used Clive Cams in Mel for years, he does a superb job, very reasonable price.

    Use a good oil like Penrite, with zinc & ph in it, with no additives. Adding additives could upset the chemical balance/formula that the oil companies have carefully thought out.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by GtoGeoff View Post
    My understanding is that FT failures started occurring in the mid to late 90s, as Detroit switched to roller cams. Demand for FT lifters fell away, some companies stopped making them &/or made them in Mexico/China. Then the problems started...
    Around 2000, a mate offered me some Eaton lifters, which I declined. The lobe face finish was so rough, you could catch your finger nail on it. Note than none of the cam companies make their own lifters, or prods or springs etc, they buy them from suppliers & re-box them. So pot luck.

    I will say it again: if you want a reliable FT cam engine, find lifters made before 1995 & have them re-faced. Factory or aftermarket, both ok. I have used Clive Cams in Mel for years, he does a superb job, very reasonable price.

    Use a good oil like Penrite, with zinc & ph in it, with no additives. Adding additives could upset the chemical balance/formula that the oil companies have carefully thought out.
    Or US made Johnson lifters.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  8. #23
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    Basic,

    Pretty sure there were two 'Johnson' lifter companies. One was Hylift Johnson. Not sure if either is still around. Very hard to keep up with so many company takeovers & closures.

    Another 'favourite' expression you see is 'assembled' in USA. What it doesn't say: what country the part[s] is made in....

  9. #24
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    Default Valve spring locators for TFS heads

    Quote Originally Posted by GtoGeoff View Post
    Basic,

    Pretty sure there were two 'Johnson' lifter companies. One was Hylift Johnson. Not sure if either is still around. Very hard to keep up with so many company takeovers & closures.

    Another 'favourite' expression you see is 'assembled' in USA. What it doesn't say: what country the part[s] is made in....
    Got a set of Hylift Johnson lifters in the sbc now. Put them in about 3 yrs ago with the last rebuild.

    From their website below. Sums up what you are talking about with 2nd rate overseas materials used to ‘assemble’ in the USA. Reading through the rest of their literature they go to extents explaining they used high quality US sourced materials.

    Material:
    Hy-Lift Johnson only uses castings and forgings of the highest quality material that are 100% made in the USA. Our casting supplier has been supplying us for more than 60 years. Yes we pay more for our material than others pay for their material made overseas but we know that our material is worth the extra money. We had casting suppliers from all over the world send us samples to test and evaluate. In the end none of them came close to the endurance of our American supplier. A lifter is only as durable as the material it is made from. It won’t matter how much money you saved, how pretty it looked, or how shiny it was when you bought it, after it fails in your engine. Make sure you ask your Lifter supplier where their material came from. They might say that they are manufactured in the USA but if the material came from overseas you will end up getting what you paid for!


    Looks like some of your mates sell them too!

    https://pontiacspeedshop.com/hylift-johnson-premium-hyd-flat-tappet-lifters/


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    Last edited by BasicQ; 31-05-2021 at 09:34 PM.

  10. #25
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    I read a post from Mike Jones of Jones Cams on Speedtalk and he said there is one main flat tappet lifter manufacturer in the USA.
    During their covid shutdown the foundry that supplied their blanks went bust and they commissioned a foundry in Cleveland but they had to completely retool to make the blanks.
    Supply is only just starting to come back on line now, so lifters have been getting scarce and expensive.
    He didn't mention the name but I think it would most likely be Johnson because GM/Delphi ( which are also highly sought after ) are made in Mexico.
    So if there's only two or possibly three lifter manufacturers, it shows how much cross branding goes on.
    I know Crower and Isky EDM lifters are made by Johnson so I assume their HFT's are too.
    Weirdly, if you look up products on the Johnson lifters US website they currently only list hydraulic roller lifters.

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