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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaseQ314 View Post
    I have no scientific knowledge or results to back it up but only fairly recently changed to Nulon 5W 40 racing oil in my 308 and have seen the best hot oil pressure at idle of any oils I have used, especially before it's fuel diluted.
    We spin them to 10K+ and all we have hurt is 1 rocker trunnion about 6 years ago. We don't blame the oil, it's just one of those things that maintenance picks up. Could have been a disaster.
    Oil is always heated before start up, 30-35 PSI at idle and around 90 psi from 5K onward.

  2. #17
    Senior Member 46Crab's Avatar
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    Default Holden 355 oil viscosity - unknown clearances, hydraulic roller cam

    HQ 368: That is a good first hand product recommendation if Iíve ever heard of one.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by HQ 368 View Post
    We spin them to 10K+ and all we have hurt is 1 rocker trunnion about 6 years ago. We don't blame the oil, it's just one of those things that maintenance picks up. Could have been a disaster.
    Oil is always heated before start up, 30-35 PSI at idle and around 90 psi from 5K onward.
    That's a solid reference for sure. I suspect in a number of failed engine cases in all racing disciplines and hot street engines that oil has been blamed for issues that were likely the fault of something else.

    Joe Gibbs Driven oils have a base in NASCAR and strongly push the higher ZDDP angle. They were supposedly developed by the race team after alleged lifter failures in their engines with modern oils years ago. Their levels aren't stupid high though, not in the couple I've used anyway but they're really expensive as well.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by HQ 368 View Post
    We spin them to 10K+ and all we have hurt is 1 rocker trunnion about 6 years ago. We don't blame the oil, it's just one of those things that maintenance picks up. Could have been a disaster.
    Oil is always heated before start up, 30-35 PSI at idle and around 90 psi from 5K onward.
    You working OS?

  5. #20
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    90 psi wow. You must have a lot of gallons per minute flowing through the engine at that pressure. Care to share?

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by AED View Post
    90 psi wow. You must have a lot of gallons per minute flowing through the engine at that pressure. Care to share?
    Flow is inversely proportionate to pressure. There would be barely more flow at 90psi than at 35psi. If the pumps output increased and flow through the engine increased proportionately then it would remain at 35psi.

    Interesting thread this one. Got me thinking about what oil to use for next oil change on the Monaro.

  7. #22
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    ^^Me too. Some good recommendations. I was choosing between the Valvoline VR1 and Castrol Edge. But damn now the Nulon sounds good...

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by BasicQ View Post
    Flow is inversely proportionate to pressure. There would be barely more flow at 90psi than at 35psi. If the pumps output increased and flow through the engine increased proportionately then it would remain at 35psi.

    Interesting thread this one. Got me thinking about what oil to use for next oil change on the Monaro.
    Sorry Q, I think there is a lot more oil flow past the bearings @ 90 psi. I have had talks with a highly respected dry sump pump manufacturer in the US and he calculated oil flow in GPM at different pressures and it would amaze you the HP differences. I have done tests on the dyno and it is eye opening.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by AED View Post
    Sorry Q, I think there is a lot more oil flow past the bearings @ 90 psi. I have had talks with a highly respected dry sump pump manufacturer in the US and he calculated oil flow in GPM at different pressures and it would amaze you the HP differences. I have done tests on the dyno and it is eye opening.
    Is that HP down as psi goes up?

  10. #25
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    Yes, it is the same as thicker oil, it takes hp for the crank and rods to wade through all that oil. We tested 30wt against 40wt and lost 6 hp on a sbc.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by AED View Post
    Yes, it is the same as thicker oil, it takes hp for the crank and rods to wade through all that oil. We tested 30wt against 40wt and lost 6 hp on a sbc.
    I was thinking the HP loss is also coming from what it takes to drive the oil pump at the elevated pressures. 90psi engine oil pressure is also 90psi pushing back against the pump in the above situation. Combined with what you say above about wading through oil shows there is no such thing as a free lunch. Added protection of oil pressure at reasonable levels takes horsepower to produce.

    It is amazing though how much windage cost in HP.

  12. #27
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    No the hp to drive an oil pump is minimal, you can spin a 5 stage oil pump with a 3/8 cordless drill, we do that all the time to prime engines, how much hp do they make? The hp is used up spinning the rotating assy in the oil. Thicker oil takes more power same as more oil takes more power.
    Don't forget a major part of oils job is to remove heat from bearings, pistons etc etc. If the oil flows by the bearings too fast, it cannot absorb as much heat, same as a radiator. i was told all this by Mr. Johnson "dry sump pumps" many years ago.
    You are correct, windage eats power.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by AED View Post
    90 psi wow. You must have a lot of gallons per minute flowing through the engine at that pressure. Care to share?
    Dodge R5 engines and GM R07's, 5 stage pumps. These things spray oil on everything at least twice......
    You've worked with Steve haven't you ?

    These things run the tightest bearing clearances as well, what you would normally set a street motor at would be way too loose for one of these. Partly why the cranks are so expensive.

  14. #29
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    Still haven't seen or heard of any comparison tests with Nulon oil. Just opinions, which are not tests.

    Street Commodore tested a variety of oils a few years back, with some big names in the test: Mobil 1, Fuchs, Shell, Redline, R/purple, Motul, Castrol, Valvoline. The test used the OK Timken bearing load test. R/purple & Penrite were equal first. Mobil 1 did worse than Mobil semi syn; Redline, which costs a King's ransom, also did poorly.

    Project Farm You tube did a comparison tests of syn oils: R/line, Lucas, Motul, Quaker, Mobil, Castrol, Amsoil, Pennzoil, Shaeffers. Big names in the US. This test was more elaborate, comparing things like hot/cold pour ability & heat loss. It was done by a series of elimination tests. Penrite didn't win, but made it the top four. I am nearly certain that the Penrite that was tested was SL grade, not the latest SN grade of the others.

    None of the small companies have their own oil refineries so they buy the base oil & add their own additive package.

    You also have to be careful comparing just by 'engine oil pressure', especially at hot idle. In the 1970s, when I was doing a lot of drag racing, BP Coarse oil was very popular for performance engines. I do not recall any syn oils around then, just mineral oils. Tight brg clearances were still to come & large[r] clearances with thicker oil was the norm. BP Coarse was straight 50 weight & very popular for performance engines. Over a period of a few months, Coarse users such as myself noticed a drop in hot idle oil pressure, around 5-10 psi. We knew all of our engines were not suddenly failing, so what gives? I rang BP. Friction Modified was the answer. Never heard of it!! The BP rep explained: because of the US oil crisis, the US govt mandated fuel economy improvements. One way of doing this was thinning the oil out when hot, which is what FM meant...& did. Some Penrite oils state on the label, NOT FM. I do not know if Nulon is non-FM, but this could explain higher hot oil pressure. So FM should be considered when comparing hot oil pressure.

    In my opinion, all of today's oils are pretty good, certainly much better than yesteryear, & selection boils down to personal favourites.

  15. #30
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    Still haven't seen or heard of any comparison tests with Nulon oil. Just opinions, which are not tests.

    Street Commodore tested a variety of oils a few years back, with some big names in the test: Mobil 1, Fuchs, Shell, Redline, R/purple, Motul, Castrol, Valvoline. The test used the OK Timken bearing load test. R/purple & Penrite were equal first. Mobil 1 did worse than Mobil semi syn; Redline, which costs a King's ransom, also did poorly.

    Project Farm You tube did a comparison tests of syn oils: R/line, Lucas, Motul, Quaker, Mobil, Castrol, Amsoil, Pennzoil, Shaeffers. Big names in the US. This test was more elaborate, comparing things like hot/cold pour ability & heat loss. It was done by a series of elimination tests. Penrite didn't win, but made it the top four. I am nearly certain that the Penrite that was tested was SL grade, not the latest SN grade of the others.

    None of the small companies have their own oil refineries so they buy the base oil & add their own additive package.

    You also have to be careful comparing just by 'engine oil pressure', especially at hot idle. In the 1970s, when I was doing a lot of drag racing, BP Coarse oil was very popular for performance engines. I do not recall any syn oils around then, just mineral oils. Tight brg clearances were still to come & large[r] clearances with thicker oil was the norm. BP Coarse was straight 50 weight & very popular for performance engines. Over a period of a few months, Coarse users such as myself noticed a drop in hot idle oil pressure, around 5-10 psi. We knew all of our engines were not suddenly failing, so what gives? I rang BP. Friction Modified was the answer. Never heard of it!! The BP rep explained: because of the US oil crisis, the US govt mandated fuel economy improvements. One way of doing this was thinning the oil out when hot, which is what FM meant...& did. Some Penrite oils state on the label, NOT FM. I do not know if Nulon is non-FM, but this could explain higher hot oil pressure. So FM should be considered when comparing hot oil pressure.

    In my opinion, all of today's oils are pretty good, certainly much better than yesteryear, & selection boils down to personal favourites.

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