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Thread: Holden 308 H

  1. #256
    Senior Member 46Crab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaseQ314 View Post
    Another thought if you want to do a dodgy, it might be possible to fit the oil metering disk from the old lifters to the new lifters and give it a try. If it works it's probably the lesser of two evils rather than using new lifters on the used camshaft.
    Worth a try and a potential cheap fix with what you already have.

  2. #257
    Not the Kingswood! hq308's Avatar
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    You found your problem for sure. I'd try what Jase has suggested and see if you can fit the discs from your old lifters.

    The L6 Chevy lifters will fit your 308 but will require 0.100" longer pushrods to use them as a direct replacement. Alternatively you might be able to machine the rocker pedestals enough to make it work with the stock pushrods, this will however affect the rocker geometry. You'd need to test it out one one cylinder to see if it will work. I'd expect the L6 Chev lifter part number will be HT817.

  3. #258
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    That lifter looks like junk..what brand or can we already guess it?

    Read somewhere some early red blocks had lifter issues something about shorter bores exposing too much of the lifter or orifice.

    But yeah some decent lifters may solve that weird oiling issue.

  4. #259
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaseQ314 View Post
    Another thought if you want to do a dodgy, it might be possible to fit the oil metering disk from the old lifters to the new lifters and give it a try. If it works it's probably the lesser of two evils rather than using new lifters on the used camshaft.
    I have already explored the option of swapping out the internals, completely different design and wont fit.
    I am just so pleased that I have in all likelihood found the source of my problem. Its cost me a complete engine rebuild which I probably did not need, not to mention the cash spent on this which could have been used to improve braking or fit power steering.. Oh well I guess I am one of those guys that has to pay his school fees....lol
    I will advice once the motor is assembled again.
    I would imagine it will need to burn out whatever residual oil is in the exhaust system first before everything normalizes and fingers crossed for no more smoking.

  5. #260
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    If you change the oil, I would make sure you use running in oil only. It has the required ingredients for parts to bed-in & provide critical protection as new parts get to know each other....

    You will get lots of opinions on this, but I change the oil after the first 850 km, then again at about 2500 km. Use running in oil both times, & switch to regular oil after that.

  6. #261
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    Quote Originally Posted by kavesh View Post
    I have already explored the option of swapping out the internals, completely different design and wont fit.
    I am just so pleased that I have in all likelihood found the source of my problem. Its cost me a complete engine rebuild which I probably did not need, not to mention the cash spent on this which could have been used to improve braking or fit power steering.. Oh well I guess I am one of those guys that has to pay his school fees....lol
    I will advice once the motor is assembled again.
    I would imagine it will need to burn out whatever residual oil is in the exhaust system first before everything normalizes and fingers crossed for no more smoking.
    That's a shame but it was worth a shot.

    I feel really bad that none of us here could help you from wasting your time and money either. I don't think anyone that regularly posts here now expected or was aware of that situation with the lifters but now we've all learned something from your misfortune.

    At least you know the rest is good now though, a better quality set of lifters with hopefully a new or reground cam and you should be golden. Like I said previously if you can, sneak a small upgraded cam in, something that will work with the standard rocker gear and maybe just a better set of springs and retainers, you'll love it.

    Good luck getting it sorted, you'll no doubt keep us posted how it goes.

  7. #262
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    Gee I hope this sorts it out. Admire your persistence, kavesh, and all that have contributed to this thread.

  8. #263
    Do you ever leave? EH179's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaseQ314 View Post
    That's a shame but it was worth a shot.

    I feel really bad that none of us here could help you from wasting your time and money either. I don't think anyone that regularly posts here now expected or was aware of that situation with the lifters but now we've all learned something from your misfortune.

    At least you know the rest is good now though, a better quality set of lifters with hopefully a new or reground cam and you should be golden. Like I said previously if you can, sneak a small upgraded cam in, something that will work with the standard rocker gear and maybe just a better set of springs and retainers, you'll love it.

    Good luck getting it sorted, you'll no doubt keep us posted how it goes.
    Sorry Jase, but Geoff mentioned it in post 208 and it probably should have been investigated further.

    Once the lifters are sorted, the pushrod restrictors will need to be re-evaluated for removal or not.

  9. #264
    Senior Member BasicQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GtoGeoff View Post
    Kavesh,
    That is why I mentioned drain back from the heads in post 191. It does sound like the heads are [a] getting too much oil [b] &/or not draining properly. Either one could cause your problem.
    Faulty lifters could cause the problem. If the metering valve in the lifters was missing or ineffective, then instead of pulsed oil metering to the top end, you could get full time metering.

    Might be worth running the engine with the valve cover off to see if you are getting oil jets like a fire hose.
    Yep, as EH said Geoff was onto it back in post #208

    [img]https://i.ibb.co/YdWHfP3/9607-C285-33-BD-4-AC8-B3-C0-E24-A978-A1-D14.jpg[/img]

    In hindsight the mention of how many ‘bars’ of oil pressure in post #220 if Kavesh was talking about lines on the gauge was also a hint that backed up Geoff’s suggestion. None of us questioned the bars. I would expect oil pressure to rise with correct operating lifters.

    I couldn’t compute that 16 lifters would not have the metering setup in them and not be metering oil until I seen the fill and empty video. I have learnt something.

  10. #265
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    Interested to hear what, if any, branding and part numbers were on these lifters.

    Realistically, it’s not a fault with the engineering of the original design and is not something anyone would expect to come across.

    To me it seems fairly straight forward; the incorrect part has been used.

    If you put an incorrect part in an engine it’s not likely to have a desirable outcome.

  11. #266
    Senior Member JaseQ314's Avatar
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    I should have been more specific, I meant we couldn't help him before he rebuilt the engine. If this was diagnosed originally it would still be running fine and would have cost him a lot less time and money but you're right, Geoff was on to it more recently, I forgot about that post so apologies to him.

    With the oil pressure Basic, I gave the benefit of the doubt (probably incorrectly) and assumed bars as meaning bars of pressure, did some calculations here myself based on converting bar to psi and took it as about 10 - 15 psi at idle and it climbed up to 45psi at whatever RPM he quoted. That seemed reasonable to me for a stocker but the amount of flow was certainly why I originally asked the oil pressure question.

    As for the pushrods, hopefully he can get a long bit of solid wire or something and knock the roll pins back out, they won't be required now.

  12. #267
    Senior Member BasicQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaseQ314 View Post
    I meant we couldn't help him before he rebuilt the engine. If this was diagnosed originally it would still be running fine and would have cost him a lot less time and money
    Absolutely agree with that sentiment.

    With the oil pressure Basic, I gave the benefit of the doubt (probably incorrectly) and assumed bars as meaning bars of pressure, did some calculations here myself based on converting bar to psi and took it as about 10 - 15 psi at idle and it climbed up to 45psi at whatever RPM he quoted. That seemed reasonable to me for a stocker but the amount of flow was certainly why I originally asked the oil pressure question.
    Your probably right and Kavesh can clear up what he meant by bar. Whatever bar he meant I picked up on ‘just above zero’. It may not be correlated but I was working backwards from expecting more oil pressure when flow through the lifters is slowed down

  13. #268
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    Guys I will respond to all the comments above soon. I need to further update now.
    Using chev L6 lifters I needed to file a couple of rocker bridges as the rockers were now too loose on those.
    Anyways so I started her up today and she did not smoke at all. Oil in the rockers are minimal so that is good and the lifters were definitely the issue.
    Problem though is she feels as though the timing is way off, would not rev up.
    Second problem the oil pressure is through tge roof now, maxed. Then it popped the oil filter O ring.
    What the hell is going on guys, why is oil pressure so high now.
    Valves stuck open now???
    Guide me further dear Holden gurus������

  14. #269
    Do you ever leave? EH179's Avatar
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    First problem: Did you do a lifter pre-load check at all? If not, do so.

    Second problem: Remove the 3 mm spacer in the relief spring and try again.

  15. #270
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaseQ314 View Post
    That's a shame but it was worth a shot.

    I feel really bad that none of us here could help you from wasting your time and money either. I don't think anyone that regularly posts here now expected or was aware of that situation with the lifters but now we've all learned something from your misfortune.

    At least you know the rest is good now though, a better quality set of lifters with hopefully a new or reground cam and you should be golden. Like I said previously if you can, sneak a small upgraded cam in, something that will work with the standard rocker gear and maybe just a better set of springs and retainers, you'll love it.

    Good luck getting it sorted, you'll no doubt keep us posted how it goes.
    Thanks Jase, but really I am just so grateful for this forum where everyone shares advice so readily.
    My budget is really blown so for now its going to be replacement lifters and see how we go from there

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