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Thread: Holden 308 H

  1. #226
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    Kavesh.

    [1] Yes the surface of the lifter that contacts the lobe is what Clive machines. As long as the depression in them now is not too deep, they can be re-faced. Back in the 70/80s I was trying out a lot of cams & I had some lifters re-faced 2-3 times. Much safer to have factory lifters [ or lifters that are 25+ yrs old ] re-faced rather than risk the junk China lifters around today, made from crap-ainium. To assess whether they are suitable for re-facing, you could send a pic to Clive of a steel ruler across the lifter face so he can see how concave the face is.

    [2] While machining the v/guides for positive seals is a good idea, the fact is heads were fitted to GM engines with just the o ring under the valve keepers & provided 000s of trouble free miles. And new seals will not fix the PCV oiling problem.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hq308 View Post
    I'm not sure if they're interchangeable. You'd have to have the lifters side by side.

    Do a search online for "Speed Pro HT969" and look on a big site like Summit and check the applications to see if any of them are used in SA. You may find they fit something common over there.

    Failing that I would think it possible that a good machine shop might be able to modify your lifters to restrict the amount of oil getting through. I think that would be better than trying to interchange internal parts yourself.
    Thanks for the advice HQ308.
    Have you known machine shops that have successfully modified lifters to restrict oil flow?

  3. #228
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    [QUOTE=GtoGeoff;769127]Kavesh.

    [1] Yes the surface of the lifter that contacts the lobe is what Clive machines. As long as the depression in them now is not too deep, they can be re-faced. Back in the 70/80s I was trying out a lot of cams & I had some lifters re-faced 2-3 times. Much safer to have factory lifters [ or lifters that are 25+ yrs old ] re-faced rather than risk the junk China lifters around today, made from crap-ainium. To assess whether they are suitable for re-facing, you could send a pic to Clive of a steel ruler across the lifter face so he can see how concave the face is.

    [2] While machining the v/guides for positive seals is a good idea, the fact is heads were fitted to GM engines with just the o ring under the valve keepers & provided 000s of trouble free miles. And new seals will not fix the PCV oiling problem.[/QUOTE

    I still have the original lifters, which has a very small concave at the base.
    I agree on point 2 completely, My issue is that there is too much oil upstairs and and really the O rings worked perfectly well provided everything else worked like it should.

  4. #229
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    Is there any chance you can dig up an old rocker cover, cut the top out of it and fit it so you can see just how much oil is flowing out of the pushrods and rocker arms while the motor is running?

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    Quote Originally Posted by JaseQ314 View Post
    Is there any chance you can dig up an old rocker cover, cut the top out of it and fit it so you can see just how much oil is flowing out of the pushrods and rocker arms while the motor is running?
    Will try and find a cover to do as mentioned. Good idea, that may confirm whether its a drain back issue or too much oil being delivered by the lifters and pushrods

  6. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by kavesh View Post
    Thanks for the advice HQ308.
    Have you known machine shops that have successfully modified lifters to restrict oil flow?
    I don't know of any but personally I've never had the need so I haven't researched it.

    A good machine shop (especially in a place like SA) will often need to think outside the box to come up with a solution when the correct parts can't easily be acquired.

    Another option is to talk to a company the grinds camshafts, they should be able to help with re-facing your old lifters. A quick google search came up with one in Johannesburg http://www.camtechsa.co.za/

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    Quote Originally Posted by kavesh View Post
    Thanks for the advice HQ308.
    Have you known machine shops that have successfully modified lifters to restrict oil flow?
    Years ago, back in the 80's and into the early 90's there were quite a few shops soldering up the oil feed hole in the Holden lifters.
    In those days it was also not uncommon for guys to use pipe cleaners to restrict the flow through the push rod. The old pipe cleaners do come apart as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hq308 View Post
    I don't know of any but personally I've never had the need so I haven't researched it.

    A good machine shop (especially in a place like SA) will often need to think outside the box to come up with a solution when the correct parts can't easily be acquired.

    Another option is to talk to a company the grinds camshafts, they should be able to help with re-facing your old lifters. A quick google search came up with one in Johannesburg http://www.camtechsa.co.za/
    I will look into them, pretty.

    How much of an issue is it really to reuse the lifters which are slightly dished, which you would not notice unless a steel rule is placed across the bottom.
    Yes before you slam my comment, I understand the point about lifters and cam lobes wear in together and miss matching old lifters cam wipe off cam lobes.
    When I was changing the cam I was chatting to an old school mechanic who told me don't change the lifters, just soak them in oil and make sure the cam and lifters are well lubed. (I did challenge his reasoning and he said most engine builders do not like any come backs on their work so replace everything with new parts and its customers money not their profit). I chose to follow all the literature and forum advice about lifters and cams and bought a new set.
    I can't help but keep remembering that this engine ran well before it was removed from its UTE.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HQ 368 View Post
    Years ago, back in the 80's and into the early 90's there were quite a few shops soldering up the oil feed hole in the Holden lifters.
    In those days it was also not uncommon for guys to use pipe cleaners to restrict the flow through the push rod. The old pipe cleaners do come apart as well.
    But why was this an issue to start with. Was it because of the mods done to the oil pump, the 3mm shim in the spring. (Should I remove the 3mm shim and see what difference it makes, although the gauge is not suggesting that I am having very high oil pressure once warm, just above zero bars when hot.

  10. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by kavesh View Post
    But why was this an issue to start with. Was it because of the mods done to the oil pump, the 3mm shim in the spring. (Should I remove the 3mm shim and see what difference it makes, although the gauge is not suggesting that I am having very high oil pressure once warm, just above zero bars when hot.
    It was more about emptying the sump and filling the rocker covers in high rpm applications. Daily drivers would never see the problems high rpm and windage brings about.

  11. #236
    Senior Member JaseQ314's Avatar
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    A couple of other things if you could try them just to humour me please Kavesh, the first one might save you cutting up a tappet cover.

    Watch through the tappet cover breather hole with the engine running and either get your son to shut it off or do it yourself and observe how quickly the oil drains away. That might help give you a clue if there's too much oil flowing up top or if it's not getting away.

    Take the cap off of the filler spout on the timing cover with the engine running and see if that makes any difference. Is it a sealed cap or a breather? If it's a breather take the cap off and bung it up with something or put your hand over it if you can. I'm clutching at straws here but curious to see if it's maybe causing something weird and it's easy to do.

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    Kavesh.
    Post 233. You need to find another 'old school' mechanic to talk to.....

    You NEVER use used flat tappet lifters on a new cam [ OK to do so with roller lifters ]. It will quickly destroy lobes & lifters. New lifters have a convex face. The lifter is offset relative to the centre line of the lobe. The lobe also has a about a 0.001" taper across it. This combination causes the lifter to spin on the lobe & distribute the load. The two parts wear together. If/when the lifter stops spinning, rapid wear & failure take place soon after.

    My earlier reference to Clive Cams. I believe he has re-faced lifters on the shelf for popular engines[ no exchange needed ]. So might speed things up if you want new lifters.

    Also, I wouldn't use re-faced lifters unless the re-facer has experience. I have had lifters re-faced that were poorly done & probably would have wiped the cam. I had to send them to Clive to get them done properly!!

  13. #238
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaseQ314 View Post
    Watch through the tappet cover breather hole with the engine running and either get your son to shut it off or do it yourself and observe how quickly the oil drains away. That might help give you a clue if there's too much oil flowing up top or if it's not getting away.
    I am thinking this is the case, dipstick while running may give a clue.

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    Check out the video on startup. Oil gets to the top rather fast in my opinion. What do you guys think?
    https://youtu.be/GHONRg2pNPA

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    Quote Originally Posted by GtoGeoff View Post
    Kavesh.
    Post 233. You need to find another 'old school' mechanic to talk to.....

    You NEVER use used flat tappet lifters on a new cam [ OK to do so with roller lifters ]. It will quickly destroy lobes & lifters. New lifters have a convex face. The lifter is offset relative to the centre line of the lobe. The lobe also has a about a 0.001" taper across it. This combination causes the lifter to spin on the lobe & distribute the load. The two parts wear together. If/when the lifter stops spinning, rapid wear & failure take place soon after.

    My earlier reference to Clive Cams. I believe he has re-faced lifters on the shelf for popular engines[ no exchange needed ]. So might speed things up if you want new lifters.

    Also, I wouldn't use re-faced lifters unless the re-facer has experience. I have had lifters re-faced that were poorly done & probably would have wiped the cam. I had to send them to Clive to get them done properly!!
    I doubt there are any machine shops that are able to reface lifters in SA. We just don't have that skill and besides labour rates are too high to justify the work.

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