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Thread: Holden 308 H

  1. #211
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    Wow, that is too much oil up top. The std o ring system will not cope with that as there is no seal at the valve guide top where all that oil is. I have never seen that much oil in there. you have a couple of paths. remove the heads and machine for positive seals or change the lifters to a different brand. We always machine for positive seals even on std rebuilds because of this problem fords included.

  2. #212
    Senior Member BasicQ's Avatar
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    Default Holden 308 H

    Just throwing a few things out there after you restricted the pushrods.

    High volume oil pump?

    what weight oil?

    Did the machine shop supply the new pistons? Doesn't matter too much but just curious because you have rebuilt the engine with no mention of the new pistons (not that I can see anyway). You had a hard time getting gaskets just wondering how you went getting pistons or did you use small block chev?
    Last edited by BasicQ; 22-12-2020 at 03:41 PM.

  3. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by BasicQ View Post
    Just throwing a few things out there after you restricted the pushrods.

    High volume oil pump?

    what weight oil?

    Did the machine shop supply the new pistons? Doesn't matter too much but just curious because you have rebuilt the engine with no mention of the new pistons (not that I can see anyway). You had a hard time getting gaskets just wondering how you went getting pistons or did you use small block chev?
    Oil pump is still the standard pump,
    Oil is SAE40 monograde as run in oil, intention is to switch to 15W40 maybe after oil change.
    Pistons I sourced locally which are chev 327 30over pistons

  4. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by AED View Post
    Wow, that is too much oil up top. The std o ring system will not cope with that as there is no seal at the valve guide top where all that oil is. I have never seen that much oil in there. you have a couple of paths. remove the heads and machine for positive seals or change the lifters to a different brand. We always machine for positive seals even on std rebuilds because of this problem fords included.
    After the roll pins did nothing for reducing oil flow to the top, I am now having a rethink about lifters. I find it so strange that the entire set of lifters are all wrong in their oil delivery to the top end. Can lifter internals be swapped from one set to another? I ask this because the original lifers from this motor did not push this much oil to the rockers. I could possibly try swap the internals, or am I just wasting my time and energy.

    It is just too much drama (and cost) to try import them from Oz, so if it is lifters that I need to change, what would be a decent brand? Also are the Chevy lifters the same? That would be easiest for me to find as Chevy parts are more easily available locally.

  5. #215
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    So where did the lifters currently in the engine come from? Different brand lifters use different internal valving to meter oil to the top end, so you could only swap internal parts if they are the same brand. And probably not a good idea to swap internal lifters parts. If your old lifters worked ok, you could get them re-faced & then you will know you have 'good' lifters.

    Clive Cams in Melbourne, Vic does this [ check his website ]. I have had many sets re-faced, he does superb job. Last lot were about $4 per lifter. He usually has a quick turnaround, less than 1 week. If you Airmailed them each way, shouldn't take too long.

  6. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by GtoGeoff View Post
    So where did the lifters currently in the engine come from? Different brand lifters use different internal valving to meter oil to the top end, so you could only swap internal parts if they are the same brand. And probably not a good idea to swap internal lifters parts. If your old lifters worked ok, you could get them re-faced & then you will know you have 'good' lifters.

    Clive Cams in Melbourne, Vic does this [ check his website ]. I have had many sets re-faced, he does superb job. Last lot were about $4 per lifter. He usually has a quick turnaround, less than 1 week. If you Airmailed them each way, shouldn't take too long.
    The brand I am not sure. They came in a neat plastic tub which had each lifter in its own pocket. Each tub carried 8 lifters. These lifters were purchased together with my cam a couple of years back when I had to freshen up the engine. My local supplier was a well known supplier for Holden parts.

    When you say refaced are you saying that the bases are reshaped to give it that slight done shape again? My old ones have a slight dish shape now when viewed with a straight edge

  7. #217
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    Can you pinpoint when it first started smoking before you rebuilt it, was it when you upgraded the cam and lifters?

    I might be wrong, but I would think that even if the lifters are letting too much oil through, they're ultimately still going to be limited to what the pushrod can flow and you've restricted them now so it should definitely be less than before. That still looks like a lot of oil up there, how does it look with the motor off?

    Watching that last video a number of times the level of the oil doesn't seem to increase noticeably with the engine RPM and the oil on the top of the rocker arms doesn't look excessive to me either which it should if there's really that much oil flowing over them. I'd pull the tappet covers and check out the drain back holes, make sure a gasket isn't covering them up or something weird like that.

  8. #218
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    So this motor ran fine until the previous owner pulled it to fit a bigger motor. It stood for 5 years before I got it.as it required a freshen up I stripped it down to also have a look at internals. Cam was found with 1 bad lobe so replaced cam and lifters.
    Right from the start I was having issues with too much smoke and struggled to diagnose tge problem.
    Guys told me because I just re ringed the pistons I was getting blowby which was pushing too much oil to the top.
    Anyways I found a work around to keep the motor running by removing the pcv from vacuum and found tappet covers with filler necks that acted as breather together with the oil filler on the timing riser.
    Once the motor was warm it hardly smoked maybe a little puff on take off.
    This year I decided I needed to fix the problem and looked at the heads and reboring.
    Now I want to fix this lemon.

    With valve cover off there is no pool of oil it does drain back and I have checked the drain back its clear.

  9. #219
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    I'm sorry, you had already addressed the drain back question a couple of pages back and I forgot.

    There's definitely something very weird going on, I just cant see how it could possibly be flowing that much oil through the valve train at idle that the drain holes in the heads couldn't get rid of it to allow it to pool like that.

    Just out of curiosity, what oil pressure does it have? If you've already said I can't remember without back reading.

  10. #220
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    2 bars cold when idling.
    Just above zero bars when hot.
    Between 2 to 3 bars under load when driving at around 60 to 80 km / h

  11. #221
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    Holden & Chev lifters will interchange but Chev has a different cup height and would need different length pushrods. Holden is the same as Pontiac & Buick so that may be another avenue you can explore to find a correct set of lifters.

    Here's a few brands / part numbers for Pontiac style lifters you can try to track down

    Speed Pro - HT969 or HT969R
    Crower 66050-16
    Comp Cams 852-16
    Crane cams - 99284-16

  12. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by hq308 View Post
    Holden & Chev lifters will interchange but Chev has a different cup height and would need different length pushrods. Holden is the same as Pontiac & Buick so that may be another avenue you can explore to find a correct set of lifters.

    Here's a few brands / part numbers for Pontiac style lifters you can try to track down

    Speed Pro - HT969 or HT969R
    Crower 66050-16
    Comp Cams 852-16
    Crane cams - 99284-16
    Due to my location it would not be easy to source the above.
    Would it be fine if I get the Chev lifters and swap out the cups, assuming that this maybe indeed possible. Not an ideal situation though.

  13. #223
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    Guys what is the thickness of the intake gaskets (1.5mm), I will need to find some gasket paper and make up some intake gaskets

  14. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by kavesh View Post
    Guys what is the thickness of the intake gaskets (1.5mm), I will need to find some gasket paper and make up some intake gaskets
    I've got 3 different sets on my shelf, an old genuine Holden steel shim gasket which measures 0.85mm and 2 different aftermarket paper type, one is 1.5mm and the other is just under 2mm

  15. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by kavesh View Post
    Due to my location it would not be easy to source the above.
    Would it be fine if I get the Chev lifters and swap out the cups, assuming that this maybe indeed possible. Not an ideal situation though.
    I'm not sure if they're interchangeable. You'd have to have the lifters side by side.

    Do a search online for "Speed Pro HT969" and look on a big site like Summit and check the applications to see if any of them are used in SA. You may find they fit something common over there.

    Failing that I would think it possible that a good machine shop might be able to modify your lifters to restrict the amount of oil getting through. I think that would be better than trying to interchange internal parts yourself.

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