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  1. #1
    Do you ever leave? ynot8's Avatar
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    Default Why we love internal combustion engines so much

    Just thinking out aloud & interesting to read other people's thoughts

    The future is EV's, it's difficult to deny it's going to happen.
    I used to have several arguments against them, but those arguments are fast becoming redundant as EV's and battery technology improves.
    They are the logical answer. Instant, relatively flat torque delivery, supercar like acceleration. Big power output for small size motors. No need for transmissions. Individual motor control And as a daily driver, I could accept them, but just can't see myself ever being passionate about them.
    People say it's just change people like me struggle with. When they went from the horse & cart to engines, people felt a similar way.

    So I sit back and wonder, what makes me love IC engines so much.
    Yes, there is the obvious sensory things, like the noise, the smell, the rough idle of a cammed V8.
    But apart from that what is it ?

    Thinking about it. People like us love to tinker with engines. Whether the car we buy has 150hp or 1000+hp, we still would have this instinctive desire to improve it's output. We can change camshaft/s, increase compression, port cylinder heads, fit stronger crank & rods for more RPM.
    What can you do to improve an electric powered vehicle ? Maybe a bigger electric motor or bigger batteries ? Even if we learn electric motors, is the average rev head going to be able to rewind a motor for increased output ? Sure the electronics that control an electric vehicle are cutting edge and complex, but an electric motor itself, is a fairly simple, albeit precision component.

    When I think about an internal combustion engine. Despite the general design being around for hundreds of years, the modern engine has evolved into a precision engineering masterpiece. It intrigues me how reciprocating components can rotate at so many RPM, the fine tolerances, the precision components required to make it all happen. To rebuild an engine, the builder measures everything within fractions of millimeters. Camshafts are dialed in within similar tolerances. Then there is the skill of choosing the right camshaft profile for a particular build/engine and flowing heads to match the rest of the engine combo. Then comes the skill of tuning.

    All this gone, when it comes to electric powered vehicles.
    you can't put a price on FUN

  2. #2
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    Perhaps, but I can't really see the battery electric path being the way to go unless something changes.

    Lithium is a big problem and on the sustainability side not great. limited resources in the environment etc.
    Governments will have to decide on the strategic importance of Lithium and whether it will play a significant role in the power grid as well.

    Hydrogen will most likely be the big player and is where most if not all of the manufacturers are spending significant money. I don't think the battery car will be a long term proposition.
    Hydrogen would also would allow governments and companies to utilise existing infrastructure and taxation systems.

  3. #3
    Part of the furniture Deuce.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ynot8 View Post
    What can you do to improve an electric powered vehicle ? Maybe a bigger electric motor or bigger batteries ? Even if we learn electric motors, is the average rev head going to be able to rewind a motor for increased output ? Sure the electronics that control an electric vehicle are cutting edge and complex, but an electric motor itself, is a fairly simple, albeit precision component.
    Darren you know how much I also like ICE and horsepower.
    But at work, we will be getting electric motorcycles soon and I am the go to performance guy. So I have spent many hours pondering the whats and hows to get more go.
    Gearing will only increase acceleration OR speed, so it would need to be programming or battery output, or mechanical changes to the electric motor (just like we are used to with I.C.E ie cams/compression etc)

    A good topic. Keen to hear others thoughts.

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    Do you ever leave? paulzig's Avatar
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    Well, if the power is there with the electric motor maybe we could work on setting the vehicle up to launch, suspension, chassis etc... We dont do much of that with ICE engines, people just go work on the engine

  5. #5
    Senior Member TonnerGuy's Avatar
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    Tesla have several drive modes including Sport and Insane, Insane launches car way quicker than the average Joe can handle on the street.

  6. #6
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    Another side to the advantages to the EV is the reduction of our reliance on oil. I have read recently that if a war breaks out between Iran and Saudi Arabia oil could reach $300 a barrel. This will have a disastrous effect on our economy and could well lead to a recession. Imagine the price of a litre of petrol. Doesn't bear thinking about
    I believe they are the way of the future and will continue to improve. I am quite sure that in a few years the improvements to their increased range plus more charging centres will make them more viable. I heard of a taxi driver in Auckland's charging costs being $89 a month.
    There is no denying that the top range models are very quick. However the price will have to come down considerably before we see too many of them on the road.

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    EVs are definitely coming but I think it will be many years before we see them in large numbers. Training of dealership personnel over this vast country & infrastructure to cater for charging the EVs is going to take time.

    Don't know much about the batteries in these cars. Are they an environmental hazard when they need to be dumped?

    Also don't think the EVs will be much fun for hobbyists like us. No shiny new alum heads to fit, no cams to change, & no single plane intakes for Paul Z to fit! Changing a battery sounds pretty boring...

  8. #8
    Do you ever leave? paulzig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GtoGeoff View Post
    E
    Don't know much about the batteries in these cars. Are they an environmental hazard when they need to be dumped?

    Also don't think the EVs will be much fun for hobbyists like us. No shiny new alum heads to fit, no cams to change, & no single plane intakes for Paul Z to fit! Changing a battery sounds pretty boring...
    Yeah Im done, it will be boring no one will argue about port velocity in dual vs single plane..

    A battery will degrade with use, but the tech is always improving and 1 million kms out of a battery pack isnt out of the question even today. After that period the batteries can be recycled and there is infrastructure and facilities that are already prepared for that.. So they arent getting 'dumped' as such.

  9. #9
    Part of the furniture Deuce.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulzig View Post
    Yeah Im done, it will be boring no one will argue about port velocity in dual vs single plane..

    A battery will degrade with use, but the tech is always improving and 1 million kms out of a battery pack isnt out of the question even today. After that period the batteries can be recycled and there is infrastructure and facilities that are already prepared for that.. So they arent getting 'dumped' as such.
    Yeap, often old EV batteries modified and repurposed as storage batteries for renewable energy houses.
    I'm waiting for prices to come down over the next 4-5years, and then may add one to my house.

  10. #10
    Do you ever leave? HQ308Ute's Avatar
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    ever played with battery model race cars? they shit on the liquid fuel engines.

    yeah batteries degrade but so does everything.. when did you have a car where you never had to replace anything? Mate of mine has to take out a loan everytime he buys tyres for his monster rims

  11. #11
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    Can you imagine the hotrod fraternity boasting that the new battery they have just bought gives them another 20 rwkw.

  12. #12
    Do you ever leave? HQ308Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by keith reed View Post
    Can you imagine the hotrod fraternity boasting that the new battery they have just bought gives them another 20 rwkw.
    lol they'll always be around.. they dont disappear like Thanos snapping his fingers. They'll just become more and more of an anachronism as time moves forward.

  13. #13
    Do you ever leave? paulzig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HQ308Ute View Post
    yeah batteries degrade but so does everything..
    Yes they do, initially they will degrade a bit but degradation slows down its not at a constant rate...

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    Without doubt the future is EV. In our lifetime too (and I'm 47).

    But for me there are three primary reasons we love our IC cars. Most have been covered above.

    1. It's generational. I think every generation's hobbies are "what they grew up with". It's what you do, it's how you spent your youth and your spare time. I bet all of us spent time stuffing around with cars most of our natural lives. It's not that we don't like EV's it's just that we are more "connected" emotionally with IC's, specifically IC's to our generation, which for most of us on hear is 60's and 70's V8s
    2. Sensory, as stated in the first post, let's be brutal we all love a thumping big block, burnt gases and burnt rubber...again it's generational, that was what got our blood pumping as kids and still does now, the 90's generation teenagers love turbo rice rockets with big wings. Again that's what they grew up with.. Look at the Nordic countries kids grow up driving rally cars, they love rally.
    3. and finally it's a certain type. Car guys are actually a smallish % of the population. Most are ball sport, gals even less. It's not about IC or EV, it's about what we enjoy, some love ball sports, we love cars. Why...well why does someone like golf? Why does someone like chess, why does someone like stamp collecting? I think it's a challenging question cause it's like the meaning of life.

    I'm by no means a mechanic, body man, and certainly not an auto-electrician. I do work on my cars, but some things are beyond me. so I outsource those (having said that I have completely dissembled the entire front of the Camaro in the past 3 days) but what I do do I love. For me my job is all mental. Literally. I am a management consultant. So turning wrenches is an awesome outlet for me and I do some of my best thinking under one of my cars.
    Chris

    68 Camaro 632 BBC Pro-touring

    Daily driver - 1961 Buick Bubbletop - not much horsepower, but smiles for miles

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    Do you ever leave? immortality's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HQ 368 View Post
    Perhaps, but I can't really see the battery electric path being the way to go unless something changes.

    Lithium is a big problem and on the sustainability side not great. limited resources in the environment etc.
    Governments will have to decide on the strategic importance of Lithium and whether it will play a significant role in the power grid as well.

    Hydrogen will most likely be the big player and is where most if not all of the manufacturers are spending significant money. I don't think the battery car will be a long term proposition.
    Hydrogen would also would allow governments and companies to utilise existing infrastructure and taxation systems.
    I think this is on the money. Lithium isn't like oil in quantities but the extraction and processing requirements is quiet possibly worse than fossil fuels and you still need to generate the power to store in those batteries of which a good portion of the world still use either fossil fuels or nuclear to generate which doesn't really solve the oil or environmental issues . Hydrogen however does.

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