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  1. #16
    Do you ever leave? paulzig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HQ308Ute View Post
    at least get some VN heads with a good valve job.
    and a single plane... lol..

    I'm having a laugh shaking my head at all the dual plane, airgap stuff here... Dont you guys want to go over 4000RPM?

  2. #17
    Do you ever leave? HQ308Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulzig View Post
    and a single plane... lol..

    I'm having a laugh shaking my head at all the dual plane, airgap stuff here... Dont you guys want to go over 4000RPM?
    Dualies want economy.. and power. the single will use a bit more fuel cause you have to feed the bigger plenum etc.. if they were allowed to the economy lovers should just fit nitrous.. tool around almost factory and hit the button when you want a stiffy.

    hmmm.. nitro and a single plane isnt too bad either

  3. #18
    Not the Kingswood! hq308's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulzig View Post
    and a single plane... lol..

    I'm having a laugh shaking my head at all the dual plane, airgap stuff here... Dont you guys want to go over 4000RPM?
    That's a bit harsh, mine makes peak hp @ ~6200 and hp barely dipped before it hit the limiter @6500. It's obviously no race engine but it's a decent street engine that's making power well past 4000. The air gaps are a lot better than you give them credit for.

  4. #19
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    Oh god
    All u Bad bad people bashing d/p manifolds specifically RpM air gap .ha ha ha


    Under bonnet clearance matters so u have a choice of in a CHEV Vic Jr or Rpm air gap . There are many proven dyno runs that show the vic jr barely outdoes the Air gap rpm
    The vic jr losses 20ftlbs in the bottom end but gains 20hp above 4500-5000. Many dyno sheets on this with383/400chevs
    The taller manifolds gain more but no bonnet canbe used .


    So with a 308 355 its more about what u can fit under bonnet
    If it were not for other $$ priorities VN heads would be on there .

    VN head Perf rpm would be a good combo but not yet

    This motor is for stock drive train and is meant tobe mild replacement .

    The 400 chev is the modified yea ha

  5. #20
    Do you ever leave? paulzig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hq308 View Post
    That's a bit harsh, mine makes peak hp @ ~6200 and hp barely dipped before it hit the limiter @6500. It's obviously no race engine but it's a decent street engine that's making power well past 4000. The air gaps are a lot better than you give them credit for.
    I'm taking the piss mate... I like the singles, you dont lose enough out the lower end of the RPM range to bother with duals especially with a stall over 3000 and gear between 3.5 - 4+ ..

  6. #21
    Do you ever leave? paulzig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swampy View Post
    Oh god

    The vic jr losses 20ftlbs in the bottom end but gains 20hp above 4500-5000. Many dyno sheets on this with383/400chevs
    i'd take that in a heartbeat, but even then if they run the same cam for both the test is skewed for either..

  7. #22
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    Hi
    As u said Paul . It really depends upon application . Stock gearing stock convertor . All the stock stuff does not allow a better engine to be used very well . Eg always held back .


    The chevy Eddy rpm air gap seems good to absolute max 6500 383/400
    There are tests on 410 chevs . The DYNO charts have still only lost a little . Seems to stretch the manifold to far IMO very borderline .


    The real crushing camparo stories is
    BBC 396 vs 400 chev The sbc makes way more torque. The bbc makes way more hp


    In this modern day sbc should all be 220 cc afr competion heads . As u have said Paul the TQ loss does not matter 3.5 plus gear and 3500stall

    Another was a 350 chev 195 canfield 240++ cam comparo eddy rpm a/gap and victor was the same in the topend
    This proves that the height of manifold is important . The higher single plains kill the performance of these 2
    Last edited by swampy; 22-01-2019 at 07:21 PM.

  8. #23
    Do you ever leave? paulzig's Avatar
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    People put way too much emphasis on seeing a very high TQ number at the low end of the RPM range, in reality even with a crappy 3000 odd stall and 3.5 gear with a short runner single plane like the hywinder on VN heads, anything over half throttle results in uncontrollable wheel spin on a street tyre.. I tried it, I came down from 4.3 gear which was just silly, to 3.5 and If I would have had 3.0's I would have tried that too..

    Remember that HP is a mathematical equation based on TQ and RPM and so all you have is TQ and a rate of movement, when you take off from the lights and floor it how long does it take to get past 5000RPM+ not long, seconds.. So what good will the off idle stuff be to you if we are talking seconds to get past it. Once you are past 1st gear you NEVER see much under 5000RPM if you are shifting an auto at 6500RPM.. A truck, towing a trailer, 4x4, rock crawler etc different story and you dont need a quick acceleration rate, you need something more diesel like

  9. #24
    Not the Kingswood! hq308's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulzig View Post
    I'm taking the piss mate... I like the singles, you dont lose enough out the lower end of the RPM range to bother with duals especially with a stall over 3000 and gear between 3.5 - 4+ ..
    Yeah I know, I just like to throw it back occasionally.

    I like singles too, had a single on the old early head set up and didn't really have any issues at low rpm. The reality is in an average street car you won't notice much difference one way or another between a small single plane and a decent dual plane. For my application it came down to the air gap, a redline single plane or a harrop or torquepower dual plane and none of the last three options offered enough for my application to justify the price premium. At the time the air gap was near half the price of the other options.
    Last edited by hq308; 24-01-2019 at 10:05 AM.

  10. #25
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    Who wants to be shifting at 6500 rpm on the street its not a racetrack. What happens if your in the wrong gear or just overtaking. Peak torque early is best for street. I barely go over 4000 rpm and I only need a blip on the throttle to recover speed. I don't have to floor it any time on the street. Doughy throttle response is always annoying. Perfect world and perfect build is for single plane. Anything that's not that usually benefits from a dual torque power etc.

  11. #26
    Do you ever leave? paulzig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CircuitVK View Post
    Who wants to be shifting at 6500 rpm on the street its not a racetrack. What happens if your in the wrong gear or just overtaking. Peak torque early is best for street. I barely go over 4000 rpm and I only need a blip on the throttle to recover speed. I don't have to floor it any time on the street. Doughy throttle response is always annoying. Perfect world and perfect build is for single plane. Anything that's not that usually benefits from a dual torque power etc.
    Well, factory cars now routinely go to 6500RPM, like new Commodores, and fords etc.. Hardly racecar territory, racecar we are talking 8000+ Even with a single plane I only need a blip on the throttle to recover speed, If you have doughy throttle response with a single plane then maybe its not the manifold. I never had doughy throttle response, I dont have to floor it 1/4 to half throttle can make the car wheelspin.

    So, why are other people having the problem of single plane doughiness? If you have peak TQ of 450-500LBS at 4500-5000RPM even with a single plane, do people think its going to plummet to zero at 4000?

  12. #27
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    Yea that's what I'm saying perfect build for single plane. Not standard red heads or other mismatched parts. What holden are we talking about with 500 ftlb at 4500 rpm? I have over 500 ftlb at 3300 rpm but its not a holden or v8 lol. All good I love this argument over 10 years now. Can't you run an 11 with a performer
    Last edited by CircuitVK; 24-01-2019 at 07:51 AM.

  13. #28
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    hi
    back onto manifold s for red head
    choices are dp edelbrock performer and dp torque power
    Comparison between the above is the Tq power kills the performer because its caby pad /runners are higher
    low profile single plains
    redline torquer
    edelbrock torquer

    None of these are a reasonable choice for a street red head if a budget and performance is considered .

    The best choice is VN heads with Eddy perf rpm air gap NOT GUNNA HAPPEN anytime soon

    The design of the eddy rpm manfolds puts very old design low rise single plains to shame

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by swampy View Post

    The best choice is VN heads with Eddy perf rpm air gap NOT GUNNA HAPPEN anytime soon
    Best choice for VN for my money is TP single, or the budget friendly Edelbrock Vic Jr single... Buy an air hacksaw while your at it, for the bonnet hole

  15. #30
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    HI Ha Ha

    No butchers near my smooth ride .
    Ya getting the Hacksaw from your summernats box head mates . oh god that's funny !!!!!! All that HP but no respect or class . Besides I don't qualify 1000hp min on shitty little tyres in a corolla .

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