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  1. #16
    been here .......too long Smitty2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cbw_09 View Post
    ..........................

    Hopefully you can salvage the block at the very least!
    I asked when on the phone .... yes they have sleeves in stock
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  2. #17
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    Hopefully there will be something left of the piston to determine cause of failure.
    At 11:1 on hypers and 98 pulp I could not run more then 24 total on the track, anymore and it knocked hard.

  3. #18
    been here .......too long Smitty2's Avatar
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    started dissasembly one night during the week
    and found this on No6 ... to be expected



    and pulled it down this weekend

    whilst hoisting it up onto the engine stand, saw this (and went don't like that !)



    DEF not good ...



    pulled the passenger side head off (it surprisingly looks A Ok on a visual.. but will be torn down and checked) and...



    yep, BIG hole on block!



    Sump?.. pretty much scrap metal



    finished the tear down...crank ok, rods (apart from No6 are ok) and the 7 other pistons.. no wear and look like new
    and on inspection of the cylinder wall bits and the fact that the main bearings are showing signs of 'fretting'

    my opinion? the cylinder wall has cracked, piston has 'nipped up' on it and torn/broken the cylinder wall

    it is off to my engine machine shop during the week and I will ask it is worth fixing
    Otherwise.. will drag the std bore 'blue' block I have under the work bench and start another engine


    ps... any one got one good A9L 304 EFI 'spike' rod I can buy ?
    Last edited by Smitty2; 26-02-2018 at 10:18 AM.
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  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty2 View Post
    started dissasembly one night during the week
    and found this on No6 ... to be expected



    and pulled it down this weekend

    whilst hoisting it up onto the engine stand, saw this (and went don't like that !)



    DEF not good ...



    pulled the passenger side head off (it surprisingly looks A Ok on a visual.. but will be torn down and checked) and...



    yep, BIG hole on block!



    Sump?.. pretty much scrap metal



    finished the tear down...crank ok, rods (apart from No6 are ok) and the 7 other pistons.. no wear and look like new
    and on inspection of the cylinder wall bits and the fact that the main bearings are showing signs of 'fretting'

    my opinion? the cylinder wall has cracked, piston has 'nipped up' on it and torn/broken the cylinder wall

    it is off to my engine machine shop during the week and I will ask it is worth fixing
    Otherwise.. will drag the std bore 'blue' block I have under the work bench and start another engine


    ps... any one got one good A9L 304 EFI 'spike' rod I can buy ?
    Wonder why the block gave way?
    Got plenty of a9l rods, let me know how many you need. No charge.
    Last edited by Smitty2; 26-02-2018 at 10:19 AM.

  5. #20
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    HI
    Cooling system inspection check fan size and radiator core clean internally ,is rad large enough ??
    Was the rising temp happening because of engine damage ??
    Static compression ??
    Ignition advance cure . There are whats called detonation ears [amplified head phones ]
    Do u run Air/ fuel guage. Ya running around 13:1 AF ratio richer if full throttle ??

    What do the other plugs look like ,although with the lack of lead not real good indicator .

    Any part of the piston remains have valve marks etc

    All the best with it at least u have another block..

  6. #21
    Do you ever leave? HQ308Ute's Avatar
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    that's racing..

  7. #22
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    that sucks but always a chance to make it bigger badder and faster i have that long road ahead of me with mine

  8. #23
    been here .......too long Smitty2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swampy View Post
    HI
    Cooling system inspection check fan size and radiator core clean internally ,is rad large enough ??
    Was the rising temp happening because of engine damage ??
    Static compression ??
    Ignition advance cure . There are whats called detonation ears [amplified head phones ]
    Do u run Air/ fuel guage. Ya running around 13:1 AF ratio richer if full throttle ??

    What do the other plugs look like ,although with the lack of lead not real good indicator .

    Any part of the piston remains have valve marks etc

    All the best with it at least u have another block..
    reading ALL that (which was pretty much the stuff that was in my head while I was stripping it down)
    can't tell anything from the piston, the biggest bit is about the size of my thumbnail
    lots of bits here -



    and
    THEN.. PHARK me Deja VU This exact problem has happened BEFORE (but with less cataclysmic results)

    I got the car in 2005 and then spent 18 months or so stripping it doing brakes suspension etc
    and then I rebuilt the original engine (bearings rings gaskets) and motor racing I went

    At the end of the 2nd season 2008, last sprint event for the year I was at Phillip Island (yeah like this time too)
    and after 2 runs, it would not start ... would not even turn over . Onto the trailer and home I go.

    Pull the plugs and No6 is full of water (obviously why it won't turn over) and pull the heads hmmm... head gasket ok
    Turn engine over by hand and see this...



    the original engine had a crack in No6 cylinder wall (funny it is No6 this time too) and that block was junked as when i took it to my engine guy to have a sleeve put in,
    he showed me the rest of the inside after he cut the block to insert the sleeve, big chunks of rust and if you tapped the bore on a number of other cylinders they all just clunked no 'ting'
    .... the original engine block was just full of rust. And was junked

    This block is not full of rust... but the cylinder wall (the bits I have) go from about 7mm in thickness down to 2.5mm ...too thin

    And all that says it was the block
    Last edited by Smitty2; 26-02-2018 at 10:14 AM.
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  9. #24
    been here .......too long Smitty2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HQ308Ute View Post
    that's racing..
    yep.. that motor racing (and that's what I keep tellin' the missus )
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  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by swampy View Post
    HI
    Cooling system inspection check fan size and radiator core clean internally ,is rad large enough ??
    Was the rising temp happening because of engine damage ??
    Static compression ??
    Ignition advance cure . There are whats called detonation ears [amplified head phones ]
    Do u run Air/ fuel guage. Ya running around 13:1 AF ratio richer if full throttle ??

    What do the other plugs look like ,although with the lack of lead not real good indicator .

    Any part of the piston remains have valve marks etc

    All the best with it at least u have another block..
    I think this is the best advice, something is not quite right on that list.

  11. #26
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    You say the crank is ok. What is #6 bearing and journal like? I've heard that can be the fail point because of the cross over to the drivers side oil gallery, if you haven't done the crossover mod. Get the spare block sonic checked. Yes 2.5mm is too thin. Took me 3 blocks to get a good one. Even then it was carefully bored to stay away from the thinner sides.

  12. #27
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    Wow, thatís quite a failure.

    Iíd be sceptical in reusing that crank. Doesnít take much to bend/twist them at all, and since itís punched the sump and cylinder too Iíd call it junk.

    Do you have plans for a new engine? Would you build it to similar specs as this one?

  13. #28
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    Pinched Rings perhaps? Pulled the top off the piston, crashed a valve and the rest is history?

  14. #29
    been here .......too long Smitty2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cbw_09 View Post
    .....................

    Do you have plans for a new engine? Would you build it to similar specs as this one?
    that is a VERY good question, one I have been wrestling with since I lifted that head off and found no cylinder

    a bit of background... might help. I started this all off joining a car club about 2005ish , getting a car
    and then deciding I wanted to run with the basic rules and regs of the mid 80s which applied to VKs

    that is Holden carbed v8, 304 ci (or 308) early heads no stroked engine, 4 speed, Holden diff. When the cage went in
    I even copied the cage HDT built in those first VK Commodores racing under the new FIA Group A rules for 'saloon' cars
    and
    that is what the car is and has been run since in that guise, albeit with now better brakes, suspension and wheel/tyre
    combo than when I started. I even cured the common' headgasket' issue that plagued the first Grp A cars
    (after some major changes to the cooling system and some other mods)

    With the car at 4987cc I was running in the various classes under 5ltr capacity when I first hit the track. That has now changed.
    CAMS Vic Supersprint Champs now have the open classification of over 4 litre engine capacity (been like that for a few years now)
    So yeah, I rev it a bit harder but still get stuck in the same classification as GT3 Porsches.. and those mothers sail by.
    Still I ain't slow out of corners and I know I can out drag race modded XR6 Turbos XR8s and LS engined cars to the top of the
    back straight at Sandown (thing is light at1200kg, has astonishing grip and makes respectable mumbo)

    So having said that.. my car club mates respect that but all of 'em are urging I go 355 stroker, YT alloy late heads
    but
    I have a spare std bore block (needs checking and machining), couple of spare std stroke cranks, late VL heads
    off the broken engine and so I can quickly put an engine together, similar to before

    Or do I splurge? hmmm.... anyone recommend a stroker kit that will stand a season of motor racing?
    best some mates have suggested is...
    SCAT forged crank 3.48"
    SCAT H Beam rods + obligatory ARP rod bolts
    JE or SRP forgies all for 10.4:1 comp

    Over to you guys I guess...



    ps have changed the title of this thread to something more suitable
    Last edited by Smitty2; 27-02-2018 at 04:29 PM.
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  15. #30
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    If you run a stroker, that will resolve the issue of not having to rev it as hard.

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