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  1. #16
    been here .......too long Smitty2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ynot8 View Post
    just following on with what TK said about the oiling system.
    If I knew what I know now about the Holden V8's oiling problems, I would have done something about it when I was building my engine.
    Make sure you clean up those oil galleries and oil return holes. And you can buy special paint to pain the valley to assist in the oil return. Also as TK said, a larger capacity, baffled sump.

    Can't remember if TK or Smitty mentioned it, but a oil catch can is an essential item too. My engine used to cop a gutful of oil on startup after a session on the track. Smoke screen out the back on startup! First time I thought I'd done the engine. But once I cleared it, it was fine. So I fit up a oil catch can (make sure it's a proper one, I had to modify mine) and smoke issue is gone. The catch can picks up around 100mls of oil after each session. So yeah worthwhile! I need to modify my oil pump as well.. The oiling system is very important, even for those of us who only take their car out on the track a few times a year. Believe me, you will put the hammer down and pull some decent rpm once you get your confidence up. Need to make sure the oiling system is up to the task or you will soon destroy an engine.
    yes oiling on a circuit 308 is important!

    pic of my latest engine...with special internal paint




    and catch can..???
    unless you have a fully functioning EPA reg PCV valve and engine circulation system
    a catch can is required for track outings. (Scrutineers WILL check for this)
    minimum 2 litre capacity for under 3 litre engines..and minimum 3 litre capacity for larger engines
    mine? a 2nd hand fuel surge tank...turned upside down!

    here is mine... (front LH)

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  2. #17
    Do you ever leave? ynot8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty2 View Post
    and catch can..???
    unless you have a fully functioning EPA reg PCV valve and engine circulation system
    a catch can is required for track outings. (Scrutineers WILL check for this)
    minimum 2 litre capacity for under 3 litre engines..and minimum 3 litre capacity for larger engines
    mine? a 2nd hand fuel surge tank...turned upside down!

    here is mine... (front LH)
    I run both a proper PCV system and the catch can. Keeps it street legal whilst also catching all that stray oil that usually ends up down the intake!
    My can only holds maybe a litre of oil, so I have to drain it after each few sessions. Minor inconvenience for the occasional track day I get out on. One day I'll pull the timing cover off and tap a return line into it
    you can't put a price on FUN

  3. #18
    been here .......too long Smitty2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ynot8 View Post
    I run both a proper PCV system and the catch can. Keeps it street legal whilst also catching all that stray oil that usually ends up down the intake!
    My can only holds maybe a litre of oil, so I have to drain it after each few sessions. Minor inconvenience for the occasional track day I get out on. One day I'll pull the timing cover off and tap a return line into it
    and yes..I forgot that
    you can run both as ynot8 pointed out
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  4. #19
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    Thanks for the info guys, the more the better now I know what areas to pay certain attention too when building the engine. Will keep this in mind. Could save me a motor!

    So can anyone recommend a cam and manifold for my setup? Something to get me going more suited to track work.

    Thanks

  5. #20
    Part of the furniture Justin_'s Avatar
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    sorry to hijack but im really interested in this oil circ info!
    just a couple of things i need explained as im not up to scratch with with these topics.
    whats is an EPA reg??
    PCV?? a one way check valve that connects to the rockers covers and flows to main entry on the intake manifold... yes/no?
    and last one oil catch cans! how do they work and do you make them work effectively?? is there a pressure differential to allow oil to return? or what?

    What type of paint is that you are using there smitty on the valley?? is this paint faultless in the way of never wearing off??

    cheers guys

  6. #21
    Part of the furniture mid11s's Avatar
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    Vn heads don't work on a 304 circuit car , someone forgot to tell my mate that .
    2.33 at bathurst , 1.06 at wakefield and i think 1.42 at the creek .

    Bathurst VL Walkinshaw - YouTube

  7. #22
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    Mid 11's- Aren't those times that good? Watched the vid the car looks quick!

  8. #23
    Do you ever leave? HQ308Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunn VK View Post
    Mid 11's- Aren't those times that good? Watched the vid the car looks quick!
    i think he was being a little sarcastic :P

  9. #24
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    You can use VN heads - but you have to rev it, not the easiest setup to drive for a learner.

    To the OP - you have to buy intake, cam & headers anyway, VN head intakes are more expensive (typically around the $700-800 mark) - you can find a good second hand edelbrock performer for early heads for $200 or less.
    Headers for VN heads into early commo - $800
    Headers for early heads into early commo - $200 second hand & laying everywhere.
    Cams cost the same, solid or hyd.
    Using a solid lets you use edge oriface lifters - great for helping the oiling system.

    So, by using early heads you're already $1300 in front, sell your VN's for $300 & you've got $1600 to spend on a set of early heads to be in the same position financially as using stock second hand old VN heads. Factor in a freshen on the VN heads & all of a sudden you've got $2-2.3k to spend on early heads - more than enough for a nice set of circuit race prepped heads (not killers, but decent & capable of 350-400hp).

    The early heads will be far more forgiving on a circuit with a novice driver, wider power band, more torque down low & crisper throttle response - easier to drive fast & able to 'cover up' shotfalls in driver ability.

  10. #25
    Do you ever leave? ynot8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Justin_ View Post
    sorry to hijack but im really interested in this oil circ info!
    just a couple of things i need explained as im not up to scratch with with these topics.
    whats is an EPA reg??
    PCV?? a one way check valve that connects to the rockers covers and flows to main entry on the intake manifold... yes/no?
    and last one oil catch cans! how do they work and do you make them work effectively?? is there a pressure differential to allow oil to return? or what?

    What type of paint is that you are using there smitty on the valley?? is this paint faultless in the way of never wearing off??

    cheers guys
    EPA reg = evironmental protection authority regulation. In other words emissions compliant
    PCV = positive crankcase ventilation.

    So what Smitty is referring to basically is the factory PCV system, which on a Holden V8 is an engine vacuum hose connected to a rocker cover via a one way valve (PCV valve) to draw out crankcase fumes which are reconsumed by the engine. The other rocker cover breathes in fresh air through the non-vacuum side of the throttle body (EFI) or aircleaner body (carburettor engine). That gives you a full circulating crankcase ventilation system, which does not vent to atmosphere - keeps the EPA boys happy along with track officials as it doesn't blow oil all over the track.

    The idea of the catch can, is to collect any excess oil that is picked up through the PCV system. Under normal street use circumstances the PCV will block any minor quantities of oil that may get pulled up through the rocker cover vacuum hose. However under continued high rpm (ie the racetrack), the Holden V8 in particular is notorious for pumping huge amounts of oil into the top end of the engine. And due to a grossly inadequate drain back system design, the oil pools up in the rocker covers so the PCV hose will tend to pull oil back from the rocker cover into the engine intake manifold - which of course is no good. A catch can is usually installed either inline with the crankcase ventilation circuit (as per my engine), to keep it street legal, or it is a standalone system where both rocker covers vent into the can and the can then vents to atmosphere (like Smitty's engine).

    A proper catch can will usually have some sort of seperation method inside the can to remove the oil from the crankcase fumes before it is either vented to atmosphere or back to the engine intake. El-cheapo 'bling' catch cans are usually just an empty can. Not particularly useful. I bought one of these, pulled it apart, divided it into 2 seperate chambers (intake and discharge) and stuffed the chambers with stainless steel wool (acts as a medium to catch the oil). The oil collects in the bottom of the can where it can either be drained or can be piped back to the crankcase of the engine.

    Hope that helps explain things
    And yeah Smitty, I'm curious as to what paint you used in the valley too. I heard there is some sort of specific paint that is used for this, so there is no risk of it flaking off
    Last edited by ynot8; 08-03-2012 at 10:46 AM.
    you can't put a price on FUN

  11. #26
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    TK383- Looks like ill have to look around for some early heads, wish i didnt sell the ones i had, ill probably keep the VN heads anyway as i already have the extractors to suit VN heads in early commies, might come in handy at a later date. All i needed is manifold and cam hence why i started this thread. So what would be a good manifold and cam combo for early heads for circuit racing? something not too wild just to get me started and keep me happy.

    YNOT8- The paint is talked about in this thread, smitty mentions what is in there; http://www.aussiev8.com.au/holden-v8...-engine-2.html

  12. #27
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    Manifold of choice is an edlebrock performer, add open spacers on the dyno & see what it likes (probably 2" open).
    Cam depends on heads, you need to know where you're at with heads first.
    A set of HQ (pre pollution) heads with 1.84 & 1.5" valves, good seat job & a good pocket port with cleaned up runners are all you need - easily capable of 350hp, which doesn't sound like much when you hear all the figures being thrown around on the net, but honestly a real 350hp with sharp response is a quick thing on the street or circuit.
    To put it in perspective 350 real HP could run high 11's/low 12's in a well set up (for drags) early commo - it'd be no slouch.
    Most guys down the pub that reckon they've got 400+hp would get a rude shock if they ran their engine up on an engine dyno.

    Now, if you bump the compression to 13:1 & run it on E85 (carb costs the same as a petrol carb) you could nudge a real 380hp - that would definately keep you happy on the power front for quite a while, it'd be more than you could effectively use without spending some real $$ on suspension, brakes & tyres.
    By the time you got the car to the point where more HP would make it faster you'd be a couple of years down the line & getting close to freshen time on the motor anyway.

  13. #28
    been here .......too long Smitty2's Avatar
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    ...geez you guys are going well here
    lots of sensible stuff thrown up...especially from TK383

    and ynot8 ... nice response re PCV valves and catch cans (saved me a lot of typing )

    and FWIW... I use an empty fuel surge can for a catch can with a separator for fumes in those fabricated rocker covers
    (and have modded the engine for max drainback). This works well ...as an example the last weekend of Feb
    I did a 2 day event at Sandown. On the Saturday it was stinking hot (39) and the car ran hot (water nudging 97-98
    and oil temp around 135) during 3 sessions of practice and qualifying. In all I did close to 40 laps and called it quits
    due to the heat (plus the track was slippery as even with tyres at around 26 cold ..they went to 38 HOT). Parked
    the car in the paddock and let it cool down a bit. I then checked the catch can..it had maybe 50-60mml of oil
    in the bottom of it. Happy with that (and on a final check when I got the car home, water and oil were at normal levels)
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  14. #29
    been here .......too long Smitty2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunn VK View Post
    T.............

    YNOT8- The paint is talked about in this thread, smitty mentions what is in there; http://www.aussiev8.com.au/holden-v8...-engine-2.html
    yeah..thats the one. stuff is called Glyptal (used mainly inside high voltage electrical transformers and large 3 phase electric motors)
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  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by TK383 View Post
    Manifold of choice is an edlebrock performer, add open spacers on the dyno & see what it likes (probably 2" open).
    Cam depends on heads, you need to know where you're at with heads first.
    A set of HQ (pre pollution) heads with 1.84 & 1.5" valves, good seat job & a good pocket port with cleaned up runners are all you need - easily capable of 350hp, which doesn't sound like much when you hear all the figures being thrown around on the net, but honestly a real 350hp with sharp response is a quick thing on the street or circuit.
    To put it in perspective 350 real HP could run high 11's/low 12's in a well set up (for drags) early commo - it'd be no slouch.
    Most guys down the pub that reckon they've got 400+hp would get a rude shock if they ran their engine up on an engine dyno.

    Now, if you bump the compression to 13:1 & run it on E85 (carb costs the same as a petrol carb) you could nudge a real 380hp - that would definately keep you happy on the power front for quite a while, it'd be more than you could effectively use without spending some real $$ on suspension, brakes & tyres.
    By the time you got the car to the point where more HP would make it faster you'd be a couple of years down the line & getting close to freshen time on the motor anyway.
    Thanks for the info TK, now i know what i need to keep an eye out for, so looks like ill try to get my hands on a set of early heads with the valves you mention. What about VL heads are they better? did they come with the big valves? I can easily get the work done on the heads no worries. So what are the advantages of running E85 other than power? or is that made from the higher compression?

    Now Extractors what size/ brand should i be looking at? i know the pacemaker efi ones come in 1 3/4 primaries or 1 5/8 but not sure about non efi.

    Apprecitate the info! Cheers!

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