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  1. #1
    casual poster Drewie's Avatar
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    Default VS V8 5 litre - Urgent help needed!

    Need some expert advice for a good friend of mine, he has a 5 litre VS V8 Commodore, some time back it developed a problem that it would stall intermittently and refuse to restart, or some mornings would not start at all, but if he tried a few hours later it would somtimes restart fine, other times not, very unpredictable, well he has changed the following items and each time he has thought he has solved the problem it has reoccurred.
    This is the list of components that have been changed:
    New coil, new distributor, plugs & leads, tried another ignition module, cleaned the throttle body, new fuel pump, he has noticed the tacho becomes a bit erratic as it stalls, when he has changed a component it seems fine for a while then bingo it fails again. He had an auto elect check it out and he diagnosed the coil, that failed to fix it. It is not throwing any fault codes, it just cuts out then refuses to restart. All the connections have been checked and appear to be ok, main earth from the motor has been cleaned up.
    Has any one got any thoughts on what to check? Have run out of ideas on what to check next.

  2. #2
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    first up dont trust new parts if ur checks keep leading back to the same part chances are ur rite i personnally have had 2 faulty recond ign modules for inj 5.0s outof box
    2nd commodore favourite dry solder joints in the ecu <give it a twist while running>
    3rd main altenator feed wire notorious in all comodores from vn through vs<6and8>
    vt 5.0s even worse and sum vt,vx,vy6cyl this one causes <gremlins>
    undo the ten mm nut on back of alt strip back the insulation a bit and if its not copper color its fuked
    4th fuel pump good possibiity
    5th symptoms point directly to a crank angle sensor tis uncommon on 5.0 but if ur running out of options
    i would be trying to find out why it dont run when it is faulting can only be fuel or spark
    or both knowing this is essential for proper logical diagnosis
    fuel only will be easy to fix check for power at pump
    no spark more than likely coil, ign module, ck sensor
    both ,cksensor,ecu ,efi relay wiring
    good luck

  3. #3
    Part of the furniture nemo's Avatar
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    Try spraying areostart into the air intake pipe with the air filter removed if it fires you got a fuel problem if it dont then its a spark issue.

  4. #4
    Do you ever leave? Brettly-2008's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nos-304 View Post
    first up dont trust new parts if ur checks keep leading back to the same part chances are ur rite i personnally have had 2 faulty recond ign modules for inj 5.0s outof box
    2nd commodore favourite dry solder joints in the ecu <give it a twist while running>
    3rd main altenator feed wire notorious in all comodores from vn through vs<6and8>
    vt 5.0s even worse and sum vt,vx,vy6cyl this one causes <gremlins>
    undo the ten mm nut on back of alt strip back the insulation a bit and if its not copper color its fuked
    4th fuel pump good possibiity
    5th symptoms point directly to a crank angle sensor tis uncommon on 5.0 but if ur running out of options
    i would be trying to find out why it dont run when it is faulting can only be fuel or spark
    or both knowing this is essential for proper logical diagnosis
    fuel only will be easy to fix check for power at pump
    no spark more than likely coil, ign module, ck sensor
    both ,cksensor,ecu ,efi relay wiring
    good luck
    What's a 'ck sensor?'

  5. #5
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    .....
    Last edited by davec; 18-09-2018 at 12:15 AM.

  6. #6
    Do you ever leave? Brettly-2008's Avatar
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    So he actually means the pick up sensor in the dizzy? The 5.0's don't have crank angle sensors, unlike the V6's.

  7. #7
    OMR346 pumba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nos-304 View Post
    first up dont trust new parts if ur checks keep leading back to the same part chances are ur rite i personnally have had 2 faulty recond ign modules for inj 5.0s outof box
    2nd commodore favourite dry solder joints in the ecu <give it a twist while running>
    3rd main altenator feed wire notorious in all comodores from vn through vs<6and8>
    vt 5.0s even worse and sum vt,vx,vy6cyl this one causes <gremlins>
    undo the ten mm nut on back of alt strip back the insulation a bit and if its not copper color its fuked
    4th fuel pump good possibiity
    5th symptoms point directly to a crank angle sensor tis uncommon on 5.0 but if ur running out of options
    i would be trying to find out why it dont run when it is faulting can only be fuel or spark
    or both knowing this is essential for proper logical diagnosis
    fuel only will be easy to fix check for power at pump
    no spark more than likely coil, ign module, ck sensor
    both ,cksensor,ecu ,efi relay wiring
    good luck
    It is very uncommon for the CAS to go on a 5Ltr, coz they dont have one

    I agree on all the rest though.

    When it stalls, get RACQ (or the equivelent in whatever state you are in) to come out and check it. They might have better luck finding the problem if they test it while it is actually doing it.
    Quote Originally Posted by cbkey View Post
    negative bunch...you never see me saying anything negative..

  8. #8
    Part of the furniture nemo's Avatar
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    did you try aero start we use it in the work shop on non going EFI car it makes it quicker to diagnos what system is at fault.It will eliminate one side of the systems so we dont waste time check things we dont need to.If the check engine light is not on you can rule out any sensors as a fault with one of them will bring that on if the globe in the light isnt blown or removed, I have seen these removed by people selling there car to hide a fault if this is a new car to him it would pay to see if the globe is there.

  9. #9
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    sory m8 guess my holden technicians guild album must be wrong next time i want component terminology ill go to a gregorys manual or maybe a hot fours magazine
    physical location has no affect on this compenents purpose terminology or operation

  10. #10
    bad tempered old c@&t wabbit's Avatar
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    physical location has no effect, but physical presence has a bit to do with it.

    the VSsIII and VT engines had a cam or crank angle sensor in the dissy. none in earlier ones.
    If a man says something in a forest, and his wife isn't there to hear him................is he still wrong?

  11. #11
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    ill set this straight m8 there is a 8 segment bosch hall effect sensor in all inj 5.0 dizzys which reads crankshaft speed this is loosely called a crank angle sensor no matter were it is phisically located on the engine on the later sequentially injected 5.0 there is also a sync sensor inside the dizzy which has one segment to sync the injectors so the engine knows when cyl 1 cumin up
    i spose if u want to get technical none of this is a crank angle sensor as the ecu dosent know in degrees where the crank is just engine speed and which injector/coil to fire next
    in the true definition of the word i spose the only common true crank angle sensor is sr20 ca18 rb20 rb25 rb26 rb 30 and 2.6 litre rodeo 4cyl of the top of my head no doubt some more nissans an isuzus
    and these are an optical sensor not hall effect
    but these read 360deg of crank rotation plus 60 or 90 degs of rotation
    and a sync signal making it a true crank angle sensor
    why waste my time with poxy terminology when u dont have any useful ideas to suggest and as i said before GM calls it a ck sensor you all new what im talking about so why bother trying to correct someone who isnt wrong and probably has far more training qualifications tools equipment and practical experience
    maybe one of you would like to suggest whow you would go about testing a hall effect sensor

  12. #12
    shovel built race engines onlimiter's Avatar
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    mabe the confusion lies in your avater!nos-304
    doesnt state master technician now does it
    might want to fix that lil typo hey!
    rev the chev kev!

  13. #13
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    ahhh so your a holden tech u poor bastard
    unfourtunately when u are a hsv tech u spend to much time dealing with
    wanker customers to worry about the tech guild
    the tech guild questions answers are all in the handouts anyway and we all know how "closed book"the tests r really make no mistake about it i read every piece of information holden gave me and heckled gm school for more
    and i was a tas nominated contact
    but i only ever worked on hsvs so how to fix the boot lock on a tk barina was irrelevent to me i spent months doing gen 3 rattlers and oilburners gearbox noise from hsv knobs thinking there was something wrong with a perfectly good car <there was the odd bad one>
    broken valve springs on c4bs
    ve hsv shocker washers
    siab springs <side impact airbag>
    the list goes on
    then come home and do 4hrs a night on my own car
    dont get me wrong i loved my job i looked forward to it
    i got to drive sum fantastic cars
    getting all the hsv steering wheel and seat covers that come on the new cars
    but unfourtunately the money will never cut it
    on top of unqualified people in charge
    fuking ridiculous warranty times
    and the productivity bull shit
    fuk that im in construction now
    if u dont count the massive wage increase
    heres what extras construction tradies get ova my mechanic brothers
    travelling .5 hr a day
    fares .8 hrs day
    site allowance $2 hr
    redundency $54 a week
    income protection
    36 hr week
    work 40 hrs get two rdos a month no notice required
    every public holiday has at least 1 rdo after it
    37 degrees go home get paid 35 degrees dont work in sun at all
    dont work in the rain
    full set uniform every year
    2pairs off boots a year
    and my new job is much simpler the building isnt finished for 6 months
    vs that car has to go out tonight but we got the wrong part or the car got in l8 so wee need you to finish it
    fuk that u wimps need to grow some balls and form a union
    like i told every one i worked with hell i even get free ambulance cover from my union
    free lawyer
    union shopper
    cheap home loans <members equity bank>
    the list goes on
    an adult apprentice mechanical <no sewerage>plumber is on more than
    a qualified mechanic plus all those extras
    so go do your tech guild m8 im well in to my 2nd apprenticeship
    and the ebas yearly wage for a mech plumber in 2012 is $72000 for 36 hrs i dont no were you live but aint no tech in no dealer in adelaide on any where near that or ever will be till they forma union which they wont
    so now i have more time to play with my toys and more money to spend on em im still qualified hold a refrigeration license and am doing cert 4 in high performance out of interest and i still have acces to a tech 2 tis and a hardware key think about that at work tomorrow

  14. #14
    shovel built race engines onlimiter's Avatar
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    wtf are you on about?
    dilligaf mate!dilligaf!
    rev the chev kev!

  15. #15
    Do you ever leave? Brettly-2008's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nos-304 View Post
    ill set this straight m8 there is a 8 segment bosch hall effect sensor in all inj 5.0 dizzys which reads crankshaft speed this is loosely called a crank angle sensor no matter were it is phisically located on the engine on the later sequentially injected 5.0 there is also a sync sensor inside the dizzy which has one segment to sync the injectors so the engine knows when cyl 1 cumin up
    i spose if u want to get technical none of this is a crank angle sensor as the ecu dosent know in degrees where the crank is just engine speed and which injector/coil to fire next
    in the true definition of the word i spose the only common true crank angle sensor is sr20 ca18 rb20 rb25 rb26 rb 30 and 2.6 litre rodeo 4cyl of the top of my head no doubt some more nissans an isuzus
    and these are an optical sensor not hall effect
    but these read 360deg of crank rotation plus 60 or 90 degs of rotation
    and a sync signal making it a true crank angle sensor
    why waste my time with poxy terminology when u dont have any useful ideas to suggest and as i said before GM calls it a ck sensor you all new what im talking about so why bother trying to correct someone who isnt wrong and probably has far more training qualifications tools equipment and practical experience
    maybe one of you would like to suggest whow you would go about testing a hall effect sensor
    Gee mate, fly off the handle much. I've never worked for Holden/HSV but I do move in circles where mates build, sell, modify and convert Holden V6s and V8s from VN-VR often and whether a motor has a 'crank angle sensor' or not is an important distinction. One does and one doesn't, even you admitted it. I'll agree that there may be a grey area with the 5.0s but I've never heard it being called a 'ck sensor', even though it probably is.

    You've worked for Holden, almost none of us have so humour us a little. Especially considering it's a public forum.

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