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  1. #1
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    Default 302 Windsor in capri in WA

    Looking to do the conversion, local guys are telling me a 302 will be the biggest I can go and certifiers are being really strict. Not looking to cut corners, happy to upgrade brakes and what not I was anyway.
    I do want to run an alloy aftermarket block and heads, for both weight, power and reliability and run 8 throttle bodies. Heaviest version of that Capris is just over 1200kg. Any advise?? Are they likely to knock it back with all the after market gear? If it was a 351 block destroked to 302 would that make it harder?
    Cheers

  2. #2
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    RTA go on year of manufacture so if you ran a current alloy block and heads in WA you would have to conform to CURRENT EPA rules IE full cat exhaust full emission testing stock cam etc etc If I was you find the oldest block and heads (pre 73) so None of that Shit would apply ,,,,, I would chat to where you might take it to be inspected as rules seem to change all the time

  3. #3
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    The block and heads would be aftermarket so not from any car much less pre 73. You could argue that it's a replacement for that year engine. What is involved in emission testing if required?

  4. #4
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    I have tried that argument - their response was as it is Current - current rules apply so for arguments sake if you had a 1970 engine it PASSED all rules in its day it would be ridiculous to try to say it has to conform with 2018 spec when it already did in 1970 BUT you cannot use this argument with an aftermarket engine as it would not have passed anything and would be considered current - a lot of guys have been caught out on this

  5. #5
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    emission testing requires going to a testing station where you would have to run you motor up and it would have to pass eg similar to say a current VF commodore

  6. #6
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    Ok so At what point is it considered an aftermarket engine? Like can you replace everything except the block?
    How hard is it to pass emissions testing?
    If running big heads and cam Can you tune for low emissions with a haltec? like have two programs, one for emissions and one for power? Does E85 help pass emissions?
    Is the testing expensive?

  7. #7
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    don't know why you are struggling with this - most of these guys have to answer for their actions so probably the best way to put this would what could you PROVE in court so if your block and heads had factory part #s - ( also aply to Holden Chev Chrysler Murcury Plymoth etc etc ) this would mean that the appropriate company spent 100's of thousands to get a cert for the time ……. you cant say that with an aftermarket part - in court could you say there is a cert for XXXXX……. its that simple ….. you and I might see shades of grey but as far as the RTA are concerned its black or white ...its a pity that there is not a universal system across Australia many are fighting for this as its a ridiculous set up right now and seems to change on a whim you might want to look into the current changes (look it up there are petitions you can sign )...Its a ****ed up system and seems worse here in WA …as far as passing emissions any large head big cam they produce huge volume - and emissions NOT something you can simply dial out

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    Hi
    U need a good engineer who is familiar with all states, transport mod laws .
    The days of individual states having individual laws should be dead but we all no they still exist , The difference is once approved in one state has to be able to be registered in another state . Having individual laws prevents transfer from state to state and if it does not comply potentially insurance does not apply . EG if differ from 1 state to another CTP insurance would not apply rendering vehicle defective and un-insurable .
    Yes u will have to prove in court …

    A complete crate engine even if based on a modern design was never actually released in a road car so there fore compliance falls under the vehicle .
    There are many ways to defeat this engine or that engine rulings .

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by swampy View Post
    Hi
    U need a good engineer who is familiar with all states, transport mod laws .
    The days of individual states having individual laws should be dead but we all no they still exist , The difference is once approved in one state has to be able to be registered in another state . Having individual laws prevents transfer from state to state and if it does not comply potentially insurance does not apply . EG if differ from 1 state to another CTP insurance would not apply rendering vehicle defective and un-insurable .
    Yes u will have to prove in court

    A complete crate engine even if based on a modern design was never actually released in a road car so there fore compliance falls under the vehicle .
    There are many ways to defeat this engine or that engine rulings .
    so in the situation where you use a crate engine, do they determin that to be a 2018 engine in which case you might need to comply with 2018 emission rules or can you argue that it is a crate engine based off a say 1980 car in which case you have to comply with that?
    also if you then change that crate engine say to run injection over a carby how does that change things?

  10. #10
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    hi
    Any NON factory standard fitment engine of any description can fit any early model . Of course there are legals to condsider. Eg from memory no more than either 20% more in displacement or is it hp u get the idea . There are limitations according to weight of vehicle vs hp and displacement as well
    I am familiar with chevs but not fords but similar rules apply .
    These days there are so many choices / options
    U will need an engineers approval so there is only so much half truths u can do .

    There were "factory" turbo V6 Capris
    There were also ""v8 "" Capris out of Africa road registered

    If u can prove your Capri is equal or better than any of these ""factory"" performance versions u will have a chance.
    Suspect all suspension , brakes and all driveline will need an upgrade

    If considering a 302W these can be stroked to 347 . Surely a complete engine with alloy heads is around . Just put in a very very mild cam for rego .

    Ford 351 v8 only put out approx. 210 hp in basic form . The V6 Turbo versions put out similar HP . The v6 would have been a lot lighter .

    I have seen a cast iron 302 in a BMW and it was a pig to drive Handling was real bad ,undriveable in the wet . Unbalanced .

    Around 7 grand for a 347 long motor [undressed ][needs intake etc ] . A stocker will cost say 4 G plus core purchase no stroker .


    U need to read the legals from the RTA front to back many times . Then consult an engineer . If u donot no your legals and ask simple questions an engineer maynot want to be involved . If an engineer does a full design brief without your full understanding it will cost u a lot more and probably U will not be happy with the outcome .
    Last edited by swampy; 08-10-2018 at 05:14 PM.

  11. #11
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    so the turbo capris were MK3 and I think they got up to around 250Hp, and the V8 Perana was a mk1 was about 280hp.
    does this mean if I want to use those figures that I would need to have a mk1 or mk3, what if I want a MK2 can I use the precedence set by the MK1 v8 and MK3 turbo?
    I know there is a CC vs weight restriction, I thought 5 times the weight in cc of the heaviest version, which is about 1200kg so I should be able to actually run a big engine, but the certifier I have spoken to says that there is a max of 180rwkw/tonne allowed and he reckons they will knock back a 351 or 347. he also said they will surely call for a capacity test.
    the main reason for the aftermarket block is to go all alloy and maintain the weight balance, the alloy 5l with alloy heads is about the same weight as the old V6.
    I have no issue with upgrading brakes and suspension and doing it all properly, just don't want to put a V8 in that makes no power.
    I can put a 2l turbo in and make 500hp relatively easy, or go the 2.9 Granada Cosworth v6 with a turbo and make 500hp. I have a Mitsubishi evo drag car making stupid power and is undriveable on the street, so I really want a v8 in the capri as a nice street car that sounds and looks cool but need to make some decent power, 500 sounds like a nice number for a street car.
    I understand this might be a hard sell with the certification but at least get as much as possible through the certification process and perhaps change things later on if need be.

  12. #12
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    HI
    You are asking questions only and engineer can answer . To use any of the overseas specs u will need to have an excellent knowledge facts and figures and beaware if u can apply to a generation 1 model . EG What are the exact differences between models ??? If your aussie car can replicate the later design upgrades you are in with a chance . . If the 1st gen aussie is severly underdesigned u would have to question the feasibility .

    Did I say a stocker with 2barrel and an extra crate motor . [Being a crate motor it will have no engine number hint ]

    Depending upon up grades 400-450hp would be the limit for a stock chassis anyways . After 400 hp most cars would be borderline without chassis mods. Depends on end use . Are u a cruiser or flat out dragger ????.
    U need to find others who have modded a Capri eg clubs etc

    Larger capacity = torque ,that's what most street cars want .

    What about these later model Ford USA v8s on a carby . Seem to remember some of these when cruisin the net .U need to do more research.

  13. #13
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    Fill in you application for pre approval. But it is really hard in wa at the moment with a max power output 180kw per tonne and rules chopped and changed to suit their reasoning to knock stuff back.

    Im sure a guy on here want to fit a larger engine to a vehicle based on the fact it was a commercial vehicle( holden one tonner) but they classed that as a passenger derived vehicle, so wanted to put larger rims on, oh no, you cant do that its a commercial vehicle and needs to have appropriate load rates tyres.

  14. #14
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    Hi
    Simply
    National rules apply cannot knock u back but u will need court time . Its F...n political always has been always will be .

  15. #15
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    Unfortunately thats not the case, if you push it the send you a certain letter( cant remeber what its called) which basically says you cant and will not be able to take it any further no ifs or buts.

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