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  1. #1
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    Default Are cubes really king? Choosing an engine.

    Hey guys,
    Having to replace my worn out old 253 in my Holden H series Ute.... do I go mild rebuilt recon sbc 350 with mild cam at 9:1 comp and T350 box all for under 10K.....

    Or a complete new rebuilt 308 also with a mild stage 3 cam 214/224 at 9.5:1 comp and slightly larger valves in old style heads. Rebuilt traumatic and converter also probably adding up to just under 10K.

    Both options will probably cost the same. Not sure about the fitting and wiring of the sbc though which could cause me additional grief?

    Thanks for any advice.
    Last edited by Adam76; 07-12-2016 at 10:52 PM.

  2. #2
    Part of the furniture 308HG's Avatar
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    mate, sounds like your going from carby/ dissy motor, to the same , chev, holden, ford = all the same sh1te= spark, fuel.
    just label where each wire goes, eg- positive/ negative to the coil, and the starter, to the coil, etc. only the firing order is differant.
    efi, is where it gets trickier.
    p.b. 10;78@ 123.19mph. never late with a 308

  3. #3
    Sure why not? 76lxhatch's Avatar
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    Fitment of the 350 is simple enough but if you have a 253 now the 308 will be simpler and possibly cheaper since you have all the pieces - exhaust, engine mounts, radiator hoses, driveshaft etc (wiring isn't really a concern). If the budget is tight its those extra parts you didn't think of that will inflate the cost, and there's nothing wrong with a nice 308.

    But, depends on what you're looking for - don't go the easier option if its not what you want, you'll just end up doing it twice.

  4. #4
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    simple answer to a simple question...yes cubes are really king. That's why I have 632 of them in my Camaro
    Chris

    68 Camaro 632 BBC Pro-touring

    Daily driver - 1961 Buick Bubbletop - not much horsepower, but smiles for miles

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    Senior Member CherryBomb's Avatar
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    Yes and No.. It all depends on your end desire or needs/restrictions. With the H series, your restriction can become greater in that you may have to get an engineers cert for fitment of a chev.. even a 307. "Just because" that model didnt come with that as an option and the stricter pollution control enforced by that time. (yes its a waste of paper work and typical Australian skirt bureaucratics).. So double check your state's RTA/ Area (Note, I said area!!).

    That aside. stock stroked 308s can produce a healthy output with matching parts. In reality, 300cc isnt all that big. Dont mistaken bigger carbs, Pipes, and cams will be better. Pick an RPM range your willing to work with in, and build with in it as much Volumetric efficiency as you can! Regardless which capacity you go.

    Consider your Rear gear ratio's also. Gear for spirited driving or tq/economy. (Again back to that RPM range and power band)

    Dan

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by 76lxhatch View Post
    Fitment of the 350 is simple enough but if you have a 253 now the 308 will be simpler and possibly cheaper since you have all the pieces - exhaust, engine mounts, radiator hoses, driveshaft etc (wiring isn't really a concern). If the budget is tight its those extra parts you didn't think of that will inflate the cost, and there's nothing wrong with a nice 308.

    But, depends on what you're looking for - don't go the easier option if its not what you want, you'll just end up doing it twice.
    Thanks 76lxhatch, yeah the budget is tight, and the 308 willl be a simpler swap.... but I have come across a really good deal on a rebuilt 350 chev and I wonder if I'll regret not going for the extra 45 cubes ??.

    But at the end of the day it's just a weekend street cruiser, not looking for 500 HP.. So the 308 will probably be enough.
    Cheers

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by cluxford View Post
    simple answer to a simple question...yes cubes are really king. That's why I have 632 of them in my Camaro
    Mmmm..... 632 cubes. That would be glorious.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by CherryBomb View Post
    Yes and No.. It all depends on your end desire or needs/restrictions. With the H series, your restriction can become greater in that you may have to get an engineers cert for fitment of a chev.. even a 307. "Just because" that model didnt come with that as an option and the stricter pollution control enforced by that time. (yes its a waste of paper work and typical Australian skirt bureaucratics).. So double check your state's RTA/ Area (Note, I said area!!).

    That aside. stock stroked 308s can produce a healthy output with matching parts. In reality, 300cc isnt all that big. Dont mistaken bigger carbs, Pipes, and cams will be better. Pick an RPM range your willing to work with in, and build with in it as much Volumetric efficiency as you can! Regardless which capacity you go.

    Consider your Rear gear ratio's also. Gear for spirited driving or tq/economy. (Again back to that RPM range and power band)

    Dan
    Hey Dan. Yeah the HJ didn't come out with a 350 do I would need an engineer's certificate and I would still have to check legalities where I live. Probably not worth the hassle.

    I've just put 3.39 gears in my salisbury for a balance between TQ and highway rpm. All I really really want is as much power and drivability between 2000 - 5000 rpm so with the cam keeping it pretty mild 214/224@50 because it is just for street use on the weekends.

    Probably just stick with the 308 I think. 350 chev just was very tempting but for a first build probably not worth the headache.
    Cheers

  9. #9
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    More cubes certainly helps if you're looking for absolute power or larger amounts of it at a lower RPM compared to something smaller, but by reading your other posts your expectations are only fairly modest anyway. Decide exactly what you want first, RPM range and particularly budget and then suss out the best, most cost effective combo to achieve it.

    Depending on what components you get for your money with that reco'd mild 350, you're probably better off just sticking with a nicely optimised 308 or possibly even stroker Holden combo that would easily do the same or even better job.

    Jason.


    P.S. As cool as Cluxford's 632 cubes would be in the right car, I'll bet he's not keen to add up how much he's spent on it, especially if it's a really serious one.

    P.P.S. Your last post wasn't there before I dropped this one so it's probably pointless now.
    Last edited by JaseQ314; 08-12-2016 at 11:52 AM.

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    Imo if going to sbc for around similar cost apart from electrics would get you near to a LS conversion cost.

    It's hard to go past $/hp of the ls not to mention the removal of weight and it's benefits of using an alloy block.
    Doing most of the work yourself shouldn't be too hard especially if you have time to buy a wreck and part out the remaining bits to bring it under 10k

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaseQ314 View Post
    P.S. As cool as Cluxford's 632 cubes would be in the right car, I'll bet he's not keen to add up how much he's spent on it, especially if it's a really serious one.
    Oh yeah it ain't cheap and I know exactly how much I have in it, in fact in the whole car. It doesn't make cover of street machine on a small budget. Oh and it's stupid thirsty. I have a 55 litre tank and furthest I've ever gotten on it is 87 Kms. Yes that is 87 kms on 1 tank, or rather than litres per 100 ks, where most cars get 8-12 litres per 100 k's. I get K's per litre. I only get 1.5 K's per litre. But it is a whole lotta fun
    Chris

    68 Camaro 632 BBC Pro-touring

    Daily driver - 1961 Buick Bubbletop - not much horsepower, but smiles for miles

  12. #12
    Part of the furniture 308HG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cluxford View Post
    Oh yeah it ain't cheap and I know exactly how much I have in it, in fact in the whole car. It doesn't make cover of street machine on a small budget. Oh and it's stupid thirsty. I have a 55 litre tank and furthest I've ever gotten on it is 87 Kms. Yes that is 87 kms on 1 tank, or rather than litres per 100 ks, where most cars get 8-12 litres per 100 k's. I get K's per litre. I only get 1.5 K's per litre. But it is a whole lotta fun
    yea, mine chomps about 1 litre for 2k's cruising, with small stabs, but yeah, major smiles, and cheaper than going to the gokarts.
    p.b. 10;78@ 123.19mph. never late with a 308

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    Quote Originally Posted by Toe Rag View Post
    Imo if going to sbc for around similar cost apart from electrics would get you near to a LS conversion cost.

    It's hard to go past $/hp of the ls not to mention the removal of weight and it's benefits of using an alloy block.
    Doing most of the work yourself shouldn't be too hard especially if you have time to buy a wreck and part out the remaining bits to bring it under 10k
    Thanks but I definitely want to stick with carb and not go down the efi latest technology route. Old school for me!

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaseQ314 View Post
    Depending on what components you get for your money with that reco'd mild 350, you're probably better off just sticking with a nicely optimised 308 or possibly even stroker Holden combo that would easily do the same or even better job.

    Jason.

    .
    Thanks Jason. I think that's exactly what I'm going to do. Stick with a nicely put together 308. Can't afford the 355 stroker... adds another 1500 - 2000 grand to the build. Shame though, I'd love a Holden 355.

  15. #15
    Part of the furniture 308HG's Avatar
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    All I really really want is as much power and drivability between 2000 - 5000 rpm so with the cam keeping it pretty mild 214/224@50 because it is just for street use on the weekends.

    if you can be swayed, the old bunch of bananas, are perfect for that rev range (just dont look as good) and then get 2INIL8 to supply you, with a generic tune, to suit what you have.
    p.b. 10;78@ 123.19mph. never late with a 308

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