Kingpin311

After reading a few posts about gassing the ls1's by 400 and such ive decided a ls1 transplant will be a good option. my question is what types\versions of those ls1\gen motors are there? problems? design flaws? is there a better type to get and can you get them in a crate motor? ie the later holden 5L had the block ground away for the HSV stroker. things like that. i completly have no idea about these motors so any advice would be great

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Dirka Dirka???

Crunchy_NuT

my problem is i want the 4 valve heads (?) from USA that cost $7,500 which eliminates the dead spot they have up until 3,000rpm

the engines are pretty responsive to power adding bolt on's and tunes etc - easy way to make a clean power and still be fuel effecient

its a pitty c.o.m.e doesnt have a forum so you can ask the very questions your looking for - pretty sure they'd hav their finger on the pulse with all the nitty gritty

coopers308

There is lots of types of gen engines. Best bet is to google them all to get the specs of them all, as it would take a week to type it all. Personally if you go the Gen 111 LS1 option (which maybe cheaper as there is lots of them) take it to a machine shop and have it fitted with 4.000 inch flanged liners, this may seem like a big cost but in the long run you will have a better choice in aftermarket off the shelf forged pistons and not have to get customs. Also have them do a half fill on the waterways as this will give the block more strength and integrity - I have seen them crack the entire length of the block on the outside! hope this gets you started as it is a big topic!

allports

BEWARE not every LS1 block you can do this to, and the only sleeve you can fit properly is a DARTON liner. At a cost of around $1100 for the sleeves alone.
Best bet is to got to google and search for an LS2 block. 4" bore standard. There is a GM dealer in Melbourne that seels them cheap.
At the end of the day it will be far easier and cheaper without the grief of a block that gets the guts cut out of it for a hundred thou larger bore.
I've seen it with my own eyes more than once what happens.
As I said at the start not every LS1 block you can do that to.
Caveat Emptor.

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If you plant a cucumber, you get a cucumber!
Two things are infinate,the universe & human stupidity, and Im not sure about the universe.
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coopers308

As far as Kingpin311 is concerned i agree the LS2 is probably the better option as it is standard, But i was just suggesting an option for the LS1, that we have tried and tested many times and works very well for us. We dont use Darton liners, although we have in the past, as far as i can remember we dont use specific types of LS1 blocks either, we have never had a problem. If you could tell me what blocks are ok to do this to and what ones aren't i'll look into a bit more.

allports

are you boring the old sleeve all the way out or just stepping on the bottom?

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If you plant a cucumber, you get a cucumber!
Two things are infinate,the universe & human stupidity, and Im not sure about the universe.
Albert Einstein
Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible. Frank Zappa

Crunchy_NuT

coopers and allports - informative information there - i was always under the impression if i was to tickle the block of my VY i'd just buy nother blank ls1 block, purely because an ls1 block would be cheaper than ls2/3 blocks - esp if your going to get the sucker to 408ci, you still gotta stroke it and bore it out with either of the blocks, are the ls2 and ls3's water/oil capabilities superior to the ls1's??

coopers308

Yes we bore the sleeve all the way out into the parent material, no step on the bottom as we use a flanged liner. It doesn't go through to water so you aren't really gutting the block as such ( i know what you mean with that when you use Darton liners it leaves nothing left!). We have heat treated the blocks before fitting the liners but find its not 100% necessary but does help keep rigidity.

coopers308

Crunchy Nut, Not sure on the oil/water differences of the LS2, LS3 to LS1, i dont think there is any difference between them, main differences was bore sizes, higher flowing cylinder heads, manifolds etc. I could be wrong though.

allports

Ok coopers308, I have seen them drop all the liners after any sort of sleeving done. as for which block I dont know and dont want to know, lol. Some of them are definatley thinner in the coring than others. Some you Darton line and have no drama, Some you have all sorts, like you mentioned the integretiy of the parent bore. This is not an open and shut case, like you'd expect. I've seen a brand new LS1 block take the Darton for a 4" bore and survive and others that with dont survive. I've seen S/H LS1 blocks survive and ones that dont. Even a light warm up upon instillation crack when cooling. Freezing sleeves seemed to have no effect either way.
Others that survive the liner job go out then back in a couple of months with the sleeves dropped and doing a Titanic impression in the cylinders, but there a gain there are others that go and dont ever have a drama. I do believe just like the heads there are more than 2 types of blocks out there. Maybe cast in different countries or foundries. There are at least 3 castings of the 241 heads alone and 2 of the 856 heads and 2 of the 243 heads so why would a block be any different, except you need two heads per block. So your guess is as good as mine.
They can and do make great power for a light weight V8.
Pity the cars weigh 1750-1850kgs.

__________________
If you plant a cucumber, you get a cucumber!
Two things are infinate,the universe & human stupidity, and Im not sure about the universe.
Albert Einstein
Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible. Frank Zappa

coopers308

Like i said in the beginning this is a huge topic! I agree allports there has to be different castings of the blocks and core shift is something that happens in every type of block, thats why i asked if you possibly new which ones, i was interested to look out for them in the future. I think we could definately talk all night about this, as i said i have seen them crack the entire length of the block - but they were std bore brute utes, i havent seen one that we have sleeved come back cracked but we do try and stay away from Darton liners in these combinations due to blocks just reacting bad for every machine process after that.

Crunchy_NuT

well without heads manifolds etc - the blocks themselves are very closey the same then? when talking of operations/effeciency rather than measurments

from what your telling allports, im a lucky camper to still have an alive beastly ls1 -- gotta love the chumps out there who put on the twin turbo kits on a standard ls1 and flog it then sook when the sump blows off and they've got $$$$$$'s worth of rebuilding to do...

allports

Unlucky to them.

__________________
If you plant a cucumber, you get a cucumber!
Two things are infinate,the universe & human stupidity, and Im not sure about the universe.
Albert Einstein
Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible. Frank Zappa

allports

A 4 valve can do the same thing with the dead spot. And for $7500 I think you could do a long stroke version bottom end with a particular rod length that would eliminate that dead spot. A reasonable tune helps, timing vs throttle and load need to be looked at closely. There's more to a tune than stepping hard on the pedal on the rwd and adjusting the fuel trim.

__________________
If you plant a cucumber, you get a cucumber!
Two things are infinate,the universe & human stupidity, and Im not sure about the universe.
Albert Einstein
Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible. Frank Zappa

Crunchy_NuT

i can only imagine the heads + all the stuff you've mentioned, makes me weak at the knees what the results would be