Thread: Gen 111 Problems?
12-07-2007, 12:38 AM #1
Gen 111 Problems?
Hi can any one tell me the honest truth about the gen 3 engine, are thay any good aside from making good power, I"m talking about reliabillity and how do you check them befor you buy one. I have heard that thay can have a knock when cold, allthought it may not develop untill the engine has done a few K's, I'm looking at buying a second hand VT/VX Commy soon as they are pretty cheep now, but I dont want it if it's going to drop a leg easy. Are thease motors strong enough to handel the everyday thrashing that the old 5L V8 and a Ford V8 can, having owened an ex chaser AU XR8 a few years ago, the thing copped a hell of a caining and never used a drop of oil or missed a beat and it was fairly quick, personely I think that the gen 3 is mad but I want reliable to, so an AU 3 could be the other option, Please help!! 'headbang'
Last edited by V8Man; 16-07-2007 at 08:14 PM.
12-07-2007, 08:33 AM #2
Personally I'd steer clear of a VT LS1. The first run used mexican built motors that were known to have oiling issues resulting in a lot being replaced/repaired under warranty. I'd be keeping an eye out for a VX or VY myself as they had US built motors and came standard with the LS6 manifold. Thats not to say that some VX onwards LS1's dont have problems but you're less likely to find one that is rooted if you stay away from the VT's.
All LS1's have 6 bolt mains and are basically over engineered for the power output they are producing. Internally stock LS1's are running 500+hp with virtually no issues through either blower/turbo setups or cam/head packages and "Unopened" LS1's are running well into the 11 second bracket around the country.
I had absolutely no issues with my VY SS ute. She never used oil, never blew smoke and never had any rattles or other undue noises other than a ticking lifter (which is fairly common on LS1's but not detrimental in any way). Some motors have been known to knock while cold on startup but as far as I know these should have been repaired or replaced under warranty. If you happen to find an LS1 that makes any knocking noises I'd stay away from it (and it's probably a VT model too).Thomas Oliver Woods 16/05/40 - 20/08/07You will always be with me Dad
12-07-2007, 10:09 AM #3
- Join Date
- May 2007
no problems. with my 03 vy ss. i know a idiot associate.who flogged the daylights out of his vy ss. no problems. with motor. with 261 rwkw. 1st gen 3 where made in canader you can only hone to 0.005. 2ed gen 3 still in canader. but different company. can be bored to 0.015 only. 2003 vy on. got different designed pistons. to prevent oil uses problems.
12-07-2007, 10:22 AM #4
- Join Date
- Feb 2007
- Traralgon, Eastern Victoria.
Dont buy a VT or VX genIII unless you know the history of the paper, you want a genIII from a VY or above, 60% of VT/VX gen3 went back under warranty, some had rebuilds, some had the whole engine replaced, ours was rebulit @ 80k than replaced with an engine out of a WK (VY) Caprice @ 111k. as woodsy said, the pistons were wearing quicly as they were not built for australian conditions, by the VY they all the engines were 100% but DEFFINITLY stay away from the VT or VX unless you KNOW the enginge has been replaced, even go to the holden dealer whom alegitly replaced the engine and find out about the car, all rebulds and replacements were done by a holden dealer.
Hope this helps.Fishing, Meat Pies, Bundy Rum & Holden Cars
12-07-2007, 10:35 AM #5
Thankyou all for your input, a VY is a bit out of my price range, I'm looking at about $15000 max, I'v heard that if a gen 3 has over 100.000k on it and dosen't have a cold knock, it should be ok, allthough its a big gambel when you paying that sort of money and you dont get a warrenty. The other option is an AU 3, but I'm not to keen on there autos, no matter witch you go there seems to be issues.
Last edited by V8Man; 12-07-2007 at 10:37 AM.
12-07-2007, 11:13 AM #6
- Join Date
- Feb 2007
- Traralgon, Eastern Victoria.
oh yeah your right with the over 100k without a cold knock, but there have been some cases with them wearing at 120-140, i think it was on taxis? or something like that, as they were always warm? but could be wrong.. unless you buy a second hand car from a dealer with a 12 month warranty... OR if you head down to the auctions... you should be able to pick up a VY SS for around 15-18Fishing, Meat Pies, Bundy Rum & Holden Cars
12-07-2007, 08:14 PM #7
Well, I had a VT SS Gen 3. It had *slight* bit of lifter noise when cold. It cleared up pretty quick. I don't thrash my engines when cold so I couldn't tell you about stone cold noises / performance.
It had a faulty oil pressure sensor which happened about a week after I got it, other than that it was OK reliability wise.
However, and this is a big however, if your not going to spend some money on the engine and exhaust (headers, good system and LS1 Edit) then you *may* be dissappointed if your used to a 5L.
I *HATED* that engine, it would have been better with a manual, but it was so sluggish under 3500 rpm I wanted to cry.
So I traded for a 5L VT HSV (which I'm now going to sell because I personally think VT-VZ are poorly assembled and not very well thought through.).
The 5L in my opinion is streets ahead in terms of usable power and torque for daily driving. Gen 3 for outright power, 5L for torque and keeping me sane while driving suburban streets.
12-07-2007, 10:07 PM #8
- Join Date
- Sep 2006
I spoke to a well known gen 111 shop here in Brisbane when I was playing around with late model ss's
His advise was to get a VX or later, for the same reasons stated above.
On a side note I was taken for a drive in a maloo ute called "Povity" some may have seen it in the Grunt Files dvd's, in was pushing out approx 550rwkw with a 250 shot of no2 it was insane, anyway, the owner used this gen 111 engine to see how far he could push a standard ls1 bottom end, he'd go through 3-4 bottles of giggle gas on a fun night out, had been driving like that for a while too, granted he had a dyno shop at his disposal so he could monitor afr, but it goes to show how tough these engines are,
[_____]____| Ford |____[_____]
| : : : : : |. ---\__/--- .| : : : : : |
| : : : : : |. ( ) - - - ( ) | : : : : : |
13-07-2007, 12:28 AM #9
I have a 115 k vt ss, no worries at all with it, been a very good car.
13-07-2007, 01:58 AM #10
I've Been Thinking A Holden Stroker Could Be A Good Option, Thats If I Could Even Find One. What Are The Vt 5l Engins Like?, I Still Think It's Underpowered In Comparison To The Gen 111 Allthough I Wouldent Know, Closest Thing I've Had Was An Au Xr8 Ex Chaser, I Thought It Hammered Along Quiet Well, Got Over 200 In No Time. HOW MUCH POWER DOSE A VT 5L MAKE IS IT 179KW OR 195KW AND DOSE IT DEPEND WHAT MODEL IT IS EG; SS, BERLINA, CLUBSPORT, IN THE 5L NOT THE STROKER 5.7
Last edited by V8Man; 13-07-2007 at 02:34 AM.
13-07-2007, 09:58 AM #11
I just looked into the kw difference in the VT 5L, it seems that the 179kw motor was standard and a195i was a HSV option, unlike the AU XR8 witch was all 185kw, how dose a 179kw commy perform against the AU XR8, I had an AU and it was very impressive for a tiny winsor v8, thay rev up very quick and pull all the way to 6000, havent driven the 200kw or the 220kw yet, I'm starting to think the hand built 302 (220kw AU3) could be the beast option of all, what you all recon, and I'm not byest when it comes to Holdens and Fords
Last edited by V8Man; 13-07-2007 at 10:03 AM.
13-07-2007, 10:07 PM #12
Well, I have 195i VT and it really pulls well up to 5000rpm. It'll make the ford V8 seem like a toy by comparison (I'm not just saying that because I'm a holden person, it's just the way it is).
The ford v8 (185) put out around 400 Nm of torque at about 3000 rpm while the holden unit goes to 430 Nm at about the same point.
Not to mention the fact that the holden unit is easier and cheaper to work.
A 220i HSV 355 makes and absolutely ridiculous amount of torque - 400+ Nm from *1200 rpm* all the way to redline (5500 rpm).
I couldn't tell you about the AU V8, but I'm fairly confident that it wouldn't even come close to that.
Then , if your a little insane, you could fit a supercharger and be making 400+kW in no time.
13-07-2007, 10:08 PM #13
I'm selling the VT anyway, not because I don't like then engine (it's about the only thing I do like about the car), but because a VH is better.
13-07-2007, 11:35 PM #14
I ran my vt ss against a boss 260 ute, 3 runs over the 1/8 mile, my times were 9.0, his were 9.8 and 9.9's and i was pulling away top end to.
My only mods are a cat back 2 1/2" exhaust.
I think the gen 3 is a good donk, but needs more grunt under 3000 rpm, nothing a stall wont fix though.
14-07-2007, 12:21 AM #15Originally Posted by REV308
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